On Sat 22 May, chele@... wrote:
>
> <i>I'm trying to track down a con report/interview that I'm sure I read
> somewhere and now cannot find.</i>
>
> Hmm.  I didn't find that, but I found an older quote from Cult Times
> (issue #69), where Tom mentions them "hinting" about a soft spot for
> Carter:
>
> http://stargate.envy.nu/tom_mcbeath1.html
>
> I doubt that's of much help, but I did like it. :)

I found that one, but the one I remember was more interesting. Maybe I read it
in a magazine some time.  Who knows?

>
> <i>Does anyone else find this a potentially interesting pairing?</i>
>
> ::cough:: They're actually my pairing of choice.  ;-)  There's some
> Sam/Harry related stuff up here (http://www.glovelove.com/samharry/), in
> fact.

I'm not alone!!!  Mind you, I don't know if my take on it will appeal to all.

There's a problem with all the site in that you've overridden the defaults on
font size and it's all coming up a couple of sizes smaller than I find easy to
read.  The navigation bar in particular is almost impossible.  I actualy can't
read what some of the items are.

> If you do end up writing anything, I'd LOVE to read it.  I usually have to
> sucker/bribe/blackmail friends into writing the pairing for me - and
> they're the shy types who won't put anything up for public consumption.

Well, I've got to finish it first, but I've two Sam/Harry stories in progress.
One closer to completion than the other.

If they work out, I'll probably post them.

Judith

--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 -  the largest Blake's 7 site on the web
http://www.knightwriter.org - 1,500 fanzines for sale in 90+ fandoms
http://www.smof.com/redemption - B7/B5/Beyond Redemption 25-27 Feb '05

<i>I'm trying to track down a con report/interview that I'm sure I read
somewhere and now cannot find.</i>

Hmm.  I didn't find that, but I found an older quote from Cult Times
(issue #69), where Tom mentions them "hinting" about a soft spot for
Carter:

http://stargate.envy.nu/tom_mcbeath1.html

I doubt that's of much help, but I did like it. :)

<i>Does anyone else find this a potentially interesting pairing?</i>

::cough:: They're actually my pairing of choice.  ;-)  There's some
Sam/Harry related stuff up here (http://www.glovelove.com/samharry/), in
fact.

If you do end up writing anything, I'd LOVE to read it.  I usually have to
sucker/bribe/blackmail friends into writing the pairing for me - and
they're the shy types who won't put anything up for public consumption.

- Chele

http://glovelove.com/
http://jackslashdaniel.com/

I'm trying to track down a con report/interview that I'm sure I read somewhere
and now cannot find.

It's probably from SG-4.  Amanda Tapping (Carter) and Tom McBeath (Maybourne)
were both there.  One of them comments that Maybourne was probably enjoying
being shouted at by Carter in 'Foothold' in the cafe scene.

I'm toying with a Carter/Maybourne story and would like to find the original
comment to see if I've remembered it correctly.

Does anyone else find this a potentially interesting pairing?  I can certainly
see Harry being attracted to her, but I think her feelings would be rather
different.  I can see levels on which something might work though.  I can see
Sam as the dominant partner.

Thoughts anyone?

Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 -  the largest Blake's 7 site on the web
http://www.knightwriter.org - 1,500 fanzines for sale in 90+ fandoms
http://www.smof.com/redemption - B7/B5/Beyond Redemption 25-27 Feb '05

Does anyone know what Maybourne's technical rank is now?

In Paradise Lost, they all call him 'Colonel', but is he actually?

When the USAF court-martial someone, I'm sort of assuming that rank gets
stripped at the same time.  Or does it remain?

I'm getting to the point in a novel where I need to know.

I'd also like to have a guess at if he has any pension entitlement - I'm
assuming that also gets lost with a court-martial.

Is it valid to assume that he was actually restored to the Air Force in Paradise
Lost?  Were they using his rank as a courtesy or because he was actually back in
the firm?

Would it be possible to cut that kind of deal?

Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 -  the largest Blake's 7 site on the web
http://www.knightwriter.org - 1,500 fanzines for sale in 90+ fandoms
http://www.smof.com/redemption - B7/B5/Beyond Redemption 25-27 Feb '05

On Sat 13 Dec, Graculus wrote:
> On 13 Dec 2003 at 18:14, Judith Proctor wrote:
>
> > Can anyone tell me if Harry appears anywhere in season 7?  (I don't
> > want to know any details if he is, but just to know would be nice)
>
> Alas, no, I've heard nothing about Harry turning up again in season
> 7. However I have heard rumours that tptb would very much like to
> bring Maybourne back in season 8, particularly since the shorter
> season (20 eps instead of 22) means (in theory anyway) more Jack
> onscreen.

Fingers crossed, both for Harry and for more Jack (he might as well be the
invisible man so far)

> Personally I'd love to see Maybourne dealing with Daniel and Teal'c,
> both of whom (Teal'c in particular) seem to have some interesting
> dynamics. ;)

Now Maybourne and Teal'c could be really interesting.  Harry may have helped
save Teal'c's life in 48 Hours, but I'm quite sure Teal'c hasn't forgotten
'Bane'.  ACtually, I distinctly remember Teal'c enjoying making Harry nervous by
referring to that in a later episode.  Thus demonstrating yet again that Teal'c
definitely has a sense of humour.

I was watching Babylon 5 yesterday and realising that I like Bester for most of
the same reasons that I like Maybourne.  They are both self-centered,
power-hungry, devious little sods, but they both have confidence in their own
abilities and a cheerfully warped sense of humour.  They are also both perfectly
capable of changing sides if it suits their present circumstances.

They both have that wonderful knack of winding up the 'hero' and playing at
scoring points.

Judith

PS.  While out working today, I met a man who looked a lot like Harry
(including beard).  Even boring jobs have occasional compensations <grin>.  (I'm
not sure Harry would have been much interested in a discussion about the perils
of Spanish bluebells, but I found it fun.)

--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 -  the largest Blake's 7 site on the web
http://www.knightwriter.org - 1,500 fanzines for sale in 90+ fandoms
http://www.smof.com/redemption - B7/B5/Beyond Redemption 25-27 Feb '05

On 13 Dec 2003 at 18:14, Judith Proctor wrote:

> Can anyone tell me if Harry appears anywhere in season 7?  (I don't
> want to know any details if he is, but just to know would be nice)

Alas, no, I've heard nothing about Harry turning up again in season
7. However I have heard rumours that tptb would very much like to
bring Maybourne back in season 8, particularly since the shorter
season (20 eps instead of 22) means (in theory anyway) more Jack
onscreen.

Personally I'd love to see Maybourne dealing with Daniel and Teal'c,
both of whom (Teal'c in particular) seem to have some interesting
dynamics. ;)

Later,
Graculus
-----------------------------
Our Stargate - all team, all the time
http://forums.delphiforums.com/ourstargate/start

Can anyone tell me if Harry appears anywhere in season 7?  (I don't want to know
any details if he is, but just to know would be nice)

I'm sort of assuming that he's less likely to appear simply because there's less
Jack in season 7 and most Maybourne story-lines seem to be written around
O'Neill.  But on the other hand, they resisted the temptation to kill him off in
'Paradise Lost' so they might have something in mind.

I think Harry could irritate other people just as nicely as Jack...

Imagine Harry as a tok'ra (which is entirely plausible given how his last
episode ended) and then imagine him making life annoying for Sam and Jacob
Carter...

Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 -  the largest Blake's 7 site on the web
http://www.knightwriter.org - 1,500 fanzines for sale in 90+ fandoms
http://www.smof.com/redemption - B7/B5/Beyond Redemption 25-27 Feb '05

"Paradise Lost" (episode # 6.15) 31 January 2003

Hours" (episode # 5.14) 15 March 2002

"Desperate Measures" (episode # 5.11) 7 September 2001

"Chain Reaction" (episode # 4.15) 5 January 2001

"Watergate" (episode # 4.7) 11 August 2000

"Shades of Grey" (episode # 3.18) 11 February 2000

"Foothold" (episode # 3.14) 5 November 1999

"Touchstone" (episode # 2.14) 30 October 1998

"Bane" (episode # 2.10) 25 September 1998

"Enigma" (episode # 1.17) 30 January 1998

On Sat 21 Jun, Miana Hawkins-Fowler wrote:
>
> True, it's usually the desk men that know every little nitpicky thing that is
> going on in an situation. They're just rarely given the opportunity to follow
> through on anyth ing like their field agent counterparts.

Excatly <grin>.  They are in a position to see the overall pattern and what's
really going on on a large scale.

> > Wouldn't be Russian.  More likely to be some kind of Arabic. Then again, not
> > all special ops people do langauges as you can never predict where you'll be
> > sent
>
> Ummm maybe he only knows smatterings of a few languages? You know, like
> phrases to get them by "just in case"?

Has a degree of logic to it.  I can recognise precisely two ideographs in
Japanese, but one of those is the sign for the ladies loo!

> >Probably is just smatterings though.  I'm loath to give any one individual
> >too any skills.  Both Carter and Daniel suffer from that.  Carter started as
> >anastrophysics and  ended up being able to make naquadah generators. Daniel
> >seems to  know everything about every culture from every period though he's
> >an Egyptologist - episode I was watching today, he recognised Zen Buddhist
> >teachings.
>
> I know, isn't the whole Sam/Daniel genuises thing annoying? Unless they were
> born and  bred brainiacs it's not very logical to even assume that they have
> such a vast amount  of knowledge.

The writers need someone to do the infodump, but that doesn't stop it being
annoying.  It seems to happen to any series that has an expert - his/her field
gets wider and wider, or at least it does in SF shows where there is so much to
deal with.

>
> > If I make Harry able to do anything with a computer, then I want to keep him
> > talented  in other areas, but not to the silly level.
>
> OOhhhhhh but here's an odd factoid I got from that little source ... Tom is
> completely lost when it comes to computers. lol He doesn't even have an email
> account. I just th ought it was kinda cute since Harry does seem to be such
> the littl e hacker.

I heard that too - on one of the audio commentary tracks, I think.  Seems par
for the course.  Paul Darrow who did Avon (the computer expert in B7) couldn't
use one either.

>
> > It takes a long time to get these things complete.  I know I'm probably
> > missing some  thing for Gareth Thomas, though I reckon I probably have 95%.
> > Early stuff tends to be  the hardest to trace, especially stage work.
>
>
>
> It's particularly hard if you can't eventually find a way to get in touch with
> an acto r or find any biographical info for them online. I'm over about 35
> actors on tvtome.co m, from Tom to Don S. Davis, but guys like Vince Crestejo
> and evenTom have been murder on me. I've have been through thousands upon
> thousands of websit es researching.

Try writing to theatres.  I'd guess that Tom's done a lot of work in VAncouver
and there can't be that many theatre's there.  Did he go to any kind of stage
school?  I managed to trace a very early photo of GAreth from drama school.
There are professional theatrical photographers.  If you can get hold of the
contact sheets, then you can get pictures from old productions.  Sometimes you
can get the contact sheet from the theatre if it's not too old a show (though
digitial cameras may start changing this).  Sometimes the photographer will
help.  I remember I had amazing 'fun' tracing what had happened to the photos of
one photograper who had died, but I traced them to the Scottish Theatre Archive
and got prints.  So, find out if Canada/VAncouver has any kind of theatre
archive, see if there are universities with a theatre studies course.

Above all, if you ever get the chance to talk to Tom in person, pick his brains
and recall everything you can.  Most of what I've traced of Gareth has come from
throwaway comments in interviews.  Newspaper archives are good too.  If you know
the play and the date, the odds are very high that you can find a review.
Reviews often make interesting reading in their own right.

Programmes are excellent material.  Theatre programmes often tell you a mine of
information about other roles an actor has played. Even a recent one would be
useful on this score.  If you can find a theatre he's appearing in, send them
enough money for a programme and postage.  Flyers are also fun to collect.


> > That's my Harry.  He does his damnedest not to let it show, but nothing
> > elseadequetly  explains his actions in 48 Hours in particular.  And the end
> > of Foothold.
>
> No he's my Harry!

Okay, we'll share. <grin>

>Bless him, at times you wanna smack him really hard .. other  times just give
>him a big hug. I've always loved characters with multifaceted personalities.

They're the only interesting ones.  Stereotypes are too predictable.  I've
been watching MacGyver recently, I like the show but the scripts are often poor.
My son and I can often tell in the first few minutes who is going to die, and
who the villian is. By the end of the episode, there are no surprises.  (and
though the science is great sometimes, in other episdes it's badly flawed.)

Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 -  the largest Blake's 7 site on the web
http://www.knightwriter.org - 1,500 fanzines for sale in 90+ fandoms
http://www.smof.com/redemption - B7/B5/Beyond Redemption 25-27 Feb '05

>Indeed so, but it doesn't make him any the less fun.  There are ways of being
devious in that field too and I've figured out several while writing for him. 
alot of information goes past desks - the desk men get to see the overall
picture and to tell others where to go.  Remember 'Paradise Lost' and Harry
saying he'dnever had the chance to go through the gate himself.  That's a desk
man who felt
he was occasionally missing out.

True, it's usually the desk men that know every little nitpicky thing that is
going on in an situation. They're just rarely given the opportunity to follow
through on anything like their field agent counterparts.


>Wouldn't be Russian.  More likely to be some kind of Arabic. Then again, not
all special ops people do langauges as you can never predict where you'll be
sent

Ummm maybe he only knows smatterings of a few languages? You know, like phrases
to get them by "just in case"?


>Probably is just smatterings though.  I'm loath to give any one individual too
many skills.  Both Carter and Daniel suffer from that.  Carter started as
anastrophysics and ended up being able to make naquadah generators. Daniel seems
to know everything about every culture from every period though he's an
Egyptologist - episode I was watching today, he recognised Zen Buddhist
teachings.

I know, isn't the whole Sam/Daniel genuises thing annoying? Unless they were
born and bred brainiacs it's not very logical to even assume that they have such
a vast amount of knowledge.

>If I make Harry able to do anything with a computer, then I want to keep him
talented in other areas, but not to the silly level.

OOhhhhhh but here's an odd factoid I got from that little source ... Tom is
completely lost when it comes to computers. lol He doesn't even have an email
account. I just thought it was kinda cute since Harry does seem to be such the
little hacker.

>It takes a long time to get these things complete.  I know I'm probably missing
some thing for Gareth Thomas, though I reckon I probably have 95%. Early stuff
tends to be the hardest to trace, especially stage work.



It's particularly hard if you can't eventually find a way to get in touch with
an actor or find any biographical info for them online. I'm over about 35 actors
on tvtome.com, from Tom to Don S. Davis, but guys like Vince Crestejo and even
Tom have been murder on me. I've have been through thousands upon thousands of
websites researching.
>That's my Harry.  He does his damnedest not to let it show, but nothing
elseadequetly explains his actions in 48 Hours in particular.  And the end of
Foothold.

No he's my Harry! =P lol Bless him, at times you wanna smack him really hard ..
other times just give him a big hug. I've always loved characters with
multifaceted personalities.



~Miana~

*************************

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The
latter cannot understand it when a [person] does not thoughtlessly submit to
hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses their intelligence." ~
Einstein

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 09:17 AM 6/14/2003 +0000, you wrote:

>The text is black on black (which I can easily correct for, but shouldn't have
>been there in the first place) and you've over-ridden the default font size (I
>never know why people do this - but it results in some text being almost too
>small to read - and that can't be easily over-ridden)  The whole point of html
>is to let the reader set the font size - setting it on the page makes this
>impossible.  (the usual reason font size gets mis-set - or so I'm told - is
>uploading Word files, rather than creating the page direct in html.  My
>husband
>does all our web work, so I'm just quoting rather than speaking from
>experience
>- all I know is that the font is too small...)

Oh!  Thanks, Judith.  I'll have to take a look at that.  ::frowns, kicking
computer:: I haven't had any of those problems, but it could just be that
it all my computer.

(And, ew, I just realized that it's not nearly as pretty in Netscape...)

:-)

-- Chele

On Thu 12 Jun, Chele wrote:
> Hi, everyone!
>
> I'm hoping no one minds a bit of website 'pimping' from a lurker. :-)

Hey, isn't that what this list is for? <grin>

> There's now a Harry fanlisting up @
>
> http://www.zoicoff.com/harry/index.html

I like the pic on the top page.  Very nice.

The text is black on black (which I can easily correct for, but shouldn't have
been there in the first place) and you've over-ridden the default font size (I
never know why people do this - but it results in some text being almost too
small to read - and that can't be easily over-ridden)  The whole point of html
is to let the reader set the font size - setting it on the page makes this
impossible.  (the usual reason font size gets mis-set - or so I'm told - is
uploading Word files, rather than creating the page direct in html.  My husband
does all our web work, so I'm just quoting rather than speaking from experience
- all I know is that the font is too small...)
>
> I'm going to slowly (very slowly) get screen-caps up of Harry eps,
> but there's a Paradise Lost gallery already. (And some other goodies).

He always looks at his best with the beard <smile>

Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 -  the largest Blake's 7 site on the web
http://www.knightwriter.org - 1,500 fanzines for sale in 90+ fandoms
http://www.smof.com/redemption - B7/B5/Beyond Redemption 25-27 Feb '05

On Tue 10 Jun, Miana Hawkins-Fowler wrote:
>
> > I thought I'd posted that here a few months ago?  I've a friend who's into
> > medals who   read Harry's ribbons for me.  The notes are mainly hers, except
> > forthe comment regard ing qualification pins.
>
> Oh cool, thanks! I've only joined this group a month or so ago, so I missed
> your origi nal post. =) Boy Harry is a desk jockey according to your friend's
> findings.

Indeed so, but it doesn't make him any the less fun.  There are ways of being
devious in that field too and I've figured out several while writing for him.  a
lot of information goes past desks - the desk men get to see the overall picture
and to tell others where to go.  Remember 'Paradise Lost' and Harry saying he'd
never had the chance to go through the gate himself.  That's a desk man who felt
he was occasionally missing out.

>
>
> > Toss some ideas at me.  The NID seem very US based, all those safe-houses
> > etc. Could  they do black-ops inside the US?  Seems at least possible, and
> > very NIDish.
>
> As far as I've ever heard, they can more or less do whatever they deem
> neccessary for  our country's defense. Be it in the US or in another country
> secretly.

well they certainly worked with the Russians on the second gate.

>
> > I've always thought O'Neill ought to have a smattering of some languages.
> > Does he ha ve few hidden away and keep quiet about?  Or did he just never do
> > well on that part of  the curriculum?
>
> I've wondered that about O'Neill to. But then he goes all blank anytime
> another langua ge is spoken like he hasn't the slightest clue. But I do think
> he speaks Russian proba bly.

Wouldn't be Russian.  More likely to be some kind of Arabic.  Then again, not
all special ops people do langauges as you can never predict where you'll be
sent and it's more a case of get in and get out rather than talking to people
while you're there (or at least, it seemed to be that kind of job in O'Neill's
background)  I think Russian would be more likely for people doing ops that were
less combat involved and more information gathering.  I acutally see Harry as
the desk type having more interest in needing to translate documents that came
his way.

>
> > Do you think there's any chance Harry would speak Chinese?  I'm trying to
> > figure his  most likely languages. I may restrict him to just Russian, but I
> > haven't decided yet.
>
> I've always leaned towards him speaking at least minimal spatterings of other
> language s like Chinese or Arabic to get by since he works in intelligence.

Probably is just smatterings though.  I'm loath to give any one individual too
many skills.  Both Carter and Daniel suffer from that.  Carter started as an
astrophysics and ended up being able to make naquadah generators.  Daniel seems
to know everything about every culture from every period though he's an
Egyptologist - episode I was watching today, he recognised Zen Buddhist
teachings.

If I make Harry able to do anything with a computer, then I want to keep him
talented in other areas, but not to the silly level.

> >I'd say that proved the exact opposite!  Harry was crap at survival skills.
>
> Ummm you got a point there. I'm mostly basing some of my opinions on knowledge
> of the  Marines, not Air Force. But then again he didn't get killed or hurt
> badly asap like mo st desk jockeys probably would in such an enviroment.

He had O'Neill to help!  Harry had finished off the rations he broght with him
before Jack did (remember the scene where O'Neill shares an energy bar with
him?).  I reckon Jack was probably feeding the both of them to a fair extent.
Harry was harder hit by the effects of the plant because he was eating a more
restricted diet.

> > I've never seen Tom in anything else.  If you have anything on video, I'd
> > love to see  it.  (I can play PAL and NTSC)

>   I'll see what I can do. Another one of his films will be on Scifi Saturday
> at 1PM EST, it's called Deadlocked: Escape from .... can't remember the rest.
> I'll be recording i t and I'm also about to purchase a few others. It'll take
> me awhil e, but I'll make you a copy of what I have on video. I don't have a
> burner yet for my  dvds. If you don't have a list of Tom's work, here's a page
> I do on him for tvtome.com . It lists almost everything. I'm still adding a
> few stage items a nd other tv shows, but it's 70% complete. =)\
>   http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/PersonDetail/personid-2418/

It takes a long time to get these things complete.  I know I'm probably missing
some thing for Gareth Thomas, though I reckon I probably have 95%.  Early stuff
tends to be the hardest to trace, especially stage work.

> >I don't see him as emotionally insecure, but as emotionally needy.
>
> Needy! That's the word.

That's my Harry.  He does his damnedest not to let it show, but nothing else
adequetly explains his actions in 48 Hours in particular.  And the end of
Foothold.
> >
>> PS.  I'm trying to remember something from teh first episode.  Am I right in
>> saying that Hammond came to the SGC from Area 51?
>
> I'll check for you. I have the dvd.

Thanks - it just struck me that Hammond and Harry might have held the same job.

Judith

--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 -  the largest Blake's 7 site on the web
http://www.knightwriter.org - 1,500 fanzines for sale in 90+ fandoms
http://www.smof.com/redemption - B7/B5/Beyond Redemption 25-27 Feb '05

Hehehe he's soooo edible. =)

I have some more of those little pics also if you ever need a few more. I'm
fidgeting with them for my Delphi account, 100x100 was the perfect size. Get
more Harry that way. lol




~Miana~

*************************

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The
latter cannot understand it when a [person] does not thoughtlessly submit to
hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses their intelligence." ~
Einstein

---------------------------------
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Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

::GRIN!:: Well, I KNEW you would!!  :)

Thank you!

-- Chele

--- In thecultofmaybourne@yahoogroups.com, Miana Hawkins-Fowler
<xmaybournex@y...> wrote:
> OMG Chelle, I love it!!!! hehehe
>
>
>
> ~Miana~
>
> *************************
>
> "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre
minds. The latter cannot understand it when a [person] does not
thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and
courageously uses their intelligence." ~ Einstein
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OMG Chelle, I love it!!!! hehehe



~Miana~

*************************

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The
latter cannot understand it when a [person] does not thoughtlessly submit to
hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses their intelligence." ~
Einstein

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, everyone!

I'm hoping no one minds a bit of website 'pimping' from a lurker. :-)
There's now a Harry fanlisting up @

http://www.zoicoff.com/harry/index.html

I'm going to slowly (very slowly) get screen-caps up of Harry eps,
but there's a Paradise Lost gallery already. (And some other goodies).

::slips back into lurk!mode::

-- Chele

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

[Harry] If you need me, I'm at the Accent Inn
checked in under the name Cassidy.

[Jack] David or Shaun?

[Harry] Butch.
              -- 48 Hours

Purveyor of Perversions:
http://www.jackslashdaniel.com/
http://www.zoicoff.com/chele/
http://nevskaya.livejournal.com/

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Cool, I'll check it out.


~Miana~

*************************

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The
latter cannot understand it when a [person] does not thoughtlessly submit to
hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses their intelligence." ~
Einstein

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Just in case anyone is remotely interested...

Ta Tu (the original version of Lord Yu, the 'tamer of the flood') is also a
hexagram in the 'I Ching'.  Ta Yu means 'the Great Possessor' or 'abundance'.
Hexagram 14 as it happens. I now have the Chinese characters for the name should
I ever want them (which doesn't seem terribly likely).

Actually I would like them if you wish to email them to me. =)


~Miana~

*************************

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The
latter cannot understand it when a [person] does not thoughtlessly submit to
hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses their intelligence." ~
Einstein

---------------------------------
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Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>'toukis'?  Never heard that word before.

Kinda Jewish for one's bottom. =)

> Also the way he's portrayed as being rather ruthless concerning other life
>Lack of sufficient contact with real people, a fairly right-wing political
stance, and a view that Earth is all that matters. I see him as totally
Earth-centric.  Aliens simply have no rights here.  As far as he's
concerned,they aren't human and that is that.  (A little like Teal'c when he
shot one of
his alternates 'Our reality is the only one that counts')

I can see this. It's weird looking at it in a real life perspective, but David
(my ex) is rather like how they portray Harry as you've stated above. To him
America is all that exists, it's nothing but the job. Lack of respect for human
life other than his own. He'd do anything they told him to, because they are
always right.



>I thought I'd posted that here a few months ago?  I've a friend who's into
medals who read Harry's ribbons for me.  The notes are mainly hers, except
forthe comment regarding qualification pins.

Oh cool, thanks! I've only joined this group a month or so ago, so I missed your
original post. =) Boy Harry is a desk jockey according to your friend's
findings.


>Toss some ideas at me.  The NID seem very US based, all those safe-houses etc.
Could they do black-ops inside the US?  Seems at least possible, and very
NIDish.

As far as I've ever heard, they can more or less do whatever they deem
neccessary for our country's defense. Be it in the US or in another country
secretly.

>I've always thought O'Neill ought to have a smattering of some languages.  Does
he have few hidden away and keep quiet about?  Or did he just never do well on
that part of the curriculum?

I've wondered that about O'Neill to. But then he goes all blank anytime another
language is spoken like he hasn't the slightest clue. But I do think he speaks
Russian probably.

>Do you think there's any chance Harry would speak Chinese?  I'm trying to
figure his most likely languages. I may restrict him to just Russian, but I
haven't decided yet.

I've always leaned towards him speaking at least minimal spatterings of other
languages like Chinese or Arabic to get by since he works in intelligence.


I'd say that proved the exact opposite!  Harry was crap at survival skills.

Ummm you got a point there. I'm mostly basing some of my opinions on knowledge
of the Marines, not Air Force. But then again he didn't get killed or hurt badly
asap like most desk jockeys probably would in such an enviroment. Well, besides
O'Neill shooting him.


>Harry got more and more good-humoured the longer Tom played him.  I'm sure the
writers were picking up on the way Tom was playing him.

>I've never seen Tom in anything else.  If you have anything on video, I'd love
to see it.  (I can play PAL and NTSC)

I'll see what I can do. Another one of his films will be on Scifi Saturday at
1PM EST, it's called Deadlocked: Escape from .... can't remember the rest. I'll
be recording it and I'm also about to purchase a few others. It'll take me
awhile, but I'll make you a copy of what I have on video. I don't have a burner
yet for my dvds. If you don't have a list of Tom's work, here's a page I do on
him for tvtome.com. It lists almost everything. I'm still adding a few stage
items and other tv shows, but it's 70% complete. =)\

http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/PersonDetail/personid-2418/

If the link doesn't work. Go to www.tvtome.com and look up Tom.


>I think you're right.  Harry reeks of only child to me. Or certainly reeks of
'man with no family'.  ONly child seems most likely, or else they all refuse to
talk to him any more!  (I could also seem him as having had a failed mariage)

Yeah, definitely doesn't have anyone. Umm don't know about the failed marriage
unless it was before he ever got into intelligence. Had to have been when he was
reeeally young.

>Oh yes.  Except in the extremely unlikely event he could find someone in the
SGC who actually fancied him. (I've suspected him of having a slight crush on
Carter since 'Foothold', there's a scene right at the end that's rather telling.
But, having said that, I don't think it's a big issue for him.)

Yeah, let me email you an interview a contact of mine sent to me that she and
her friend did of Tom.
I only have it in file form. Explains a few of the things we're talking about.


>I don't see him as emotionally insecure, but as emotionally needy.

Needy! That's the word.

>Daniel is very sweet, but lacks Harry's devious approach to life.  In the end,
it's the more complex characters that interest me.  Delving into the detail is
half the fun.

Same for me. I also love trying to figure out the "Whys" of how they came into
being.

>
PS.  I'm trying to remember something from teh first episode.  Am I right in
saying that Hammond came to the SGC from Area 51?

I'll check for you. I have the dvd.



~Miana~

*************************

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The
latter cannot understand it when a [person] does not thoughtlessly submit to
hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses their intelligence." ~
Einstein

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Just in case anyone is remotely interested...

Ta Tu (the original version of Lord Yu, the 'tamer of the flood') is also a
hexagram in the 'I Ching'.  Ta Yu means 'the Great Possessor' or 'abundance'.
Hexagram 14 as it happens. I now have the Chinese characters for the name should
I ever want them (which doesn't seem terribly likely).

Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 -  the largest Blake's 7 site on the web
http://www.knightwriter.org - 1,500 fanzines for sale in 90+ fandoms
http://www.smof.com/redemption - B7/B5/Beyond Redemption 25-27 Feb '05

If there's any zine readers among you, Diverse Doings 11 is now out (for those
who weren't at Mediawest) - I got my 'trib copy in the post today.  'Blood and
Sand' is my Harry/Jack story.

It's published by Straight Up Press.  If you have the urge, it's for sale on
http://www.knightwriter.org  (but it's a multi-media slash zine, so you need to
like at least a few of the other fandoms to be interested)

Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 -  the largest Blake's 7 site on the web
http://www.knightwriter.org - 1,500 fanzines for sale in 90+ fandoms
http://www.smof.com/redemption - B7/B5/Beyond Redemption 25-27 Feb '05

On Sun 08 Jun, Miana Hawkins-Fowler wrote:
> >On what do you base that?
>
> > It's possible to be in charge of something without having experience in it.
> > Look at h ow government posts get shuffled around in both real life and
> > fiction. Kinsey moved fr om apropriations to intelligence.  do you believe
> > he had either an  economics/accountancy qualification or expertise in
> > intelligence?
>
> It's more based upon personal opinion. I think Harry would be more than likely
> trained in far more areas than we would be made aware of. Hacker-type spy or
> not, he's gotta  have pretty darn good knowledge of how to get his toukis out
> on hi s own.

'toukis'?  Never heard that word before.

> Also the way he's portrayed as being rather ruthless concerning other life
> (i.e . Enigma or Bane), what do you think that would stem from?

Lack of sufficient contact with real people, a fairly right-wing political
stance, and a view that Earth is all that matters.  I see him as totally
Earth-centric.  Aliens simply have no rights here.  As far as he's concerned,
they aren't human and that is that.  (A little like Teal'c when he shot one of
his alternates 'Our reality is the only one that counts')

> I think probably he began in something simple like economics but later went
> into intel ligence. Found his niche' so to speak.

Possibly.  I certainly don't think he started in intelligence.

>
>
> > I think Harry got that job because he's a good organiser as much as anything
>> (he has a medal ribbon for 'organisational excellence').  I also think he
>> has some skills in that area, but mainly in the computer hacking/sneaking in
>> an out of pla ces type of skills.

>   I've been meaning to get a close up pick of his ribbons and run through what
> they're f or. I'm bored, and you never know until you try. The people on the
> show might have con sidered little details like that.

I thought I'd posted that here a few months ago?  I've a friend who's into
medals who read Harry's ribbons for me.  The notes are mainly hers, except for
the comment regarding qualification pins.

Pilot wings (which is why I don't think he started in intelligence - the Air
Force have a different qualification pin for 'intelligence')

Meritorious Service Medal - for 'outstanding non-combat achievement or
service'

Joint Service Commendation Medal - for meritorious service or achievement
while assigned to a 'joint,' i.e. cross-service, activity

Air Force Achievement Medal - for people below the rank of Colonel who
distinguish themselves by achievement or service

Organisational excellence award

Air Force Presidential Unit Citation - a unit award which is worn
perpetually by anyone in the unit at the time of award, and by anyone
serving with that unit later but only while there

National Defence Service Medal - awarded to EVERYBODY in the armed forces at
the time the US goes to war (his is probably for the Gulf War period)

Southwest Asia Service Medal - service in support of the Gulf War (but not
necessarily out there fighting - had he been, there would have been the
Saudi Arabian & Kuwait medals too)

Air Force Overseas Short Tour

Air Force Overseas Long Tour

Humanitarian Service Medal - for participation in any military operation of
a humanitarian nature

So, they're all non-combat, but one wonders where/when he did his overseas
tours.

>
> > O'Neill's black ops skills are far more combat/survival related.
>
> Of course, but cells similar to black ops are also used for intelligence not
> just comb at/neutralization missions. I could see Harry doing something like
> that.

Toss some ideas at me.  The NID seem very US based, all those safe-houses etc.
Could they do black-ops inside the US?  Seems at least possible, and very
NIDish.

>
>
> > Harry has done at least two overseas tours of duty (might be where he learnt
> > to speak>  Russian - I assume he can as he dealt with them on a couple of
> > occasions)
>   Probably does, seems to be somewhat common. My ex speaks like 5 languages,
> including R ussian and I think he mostly did sniper/sharpshooting. He even had
> me speaking a littl e of it after a while. lol

I've always thought O'Neill ought to have a smattering of some languages.  Does
he have few hidden away and keep quiet about?  Or did he just never do well on
that part of the curriculum?

Do you think there's any chance Harry would speak Chinese?  I'm trying to figure
his most likely languages.  I may restrict him to just Russian, but I haven't
decided yet.


> >but he has no combat medals of any kind - in sharp contrast to O'Neill.
>
> Well, ya never know. They also are given medals for missions that are top
> secret, the  medals are usually not worn or displayed. Another 'from what I
> was told' item.

Possible.  Harry still feels like the sneaking around desk type rather then
jungles type.  I like to keep the two of them contrasted - makes them more
interesting when they work together.  BEsides, I can see that there would be
medals that he might not be able to wear, but I would have thought if he had
that kind of training, there might have been some related medals that he could
show.  eg.  Jack might not be able to display everything he's done on special
ops, but he still wears an EOD (Explosive ordnance disposal - which includes
explosives handling of all kinds) qualification pin.  He also has medals
relating to the Gulf War and to Kuwait (and Vietnam - which makes him older
than some fans assume, but pretty close to RDA's age).

>
>
> >I think Harry would be right at home in the industrial espionage kind of
> >field but totally lost in an operation that required trekking through open
> >terrain to do aguerri la raid at the end of it.  That's Jack's area.  He was
> >doing that sort of thing in the  Gulf War and also at other times.  Their
> >skills are largely compl ementary, not overlapping.
>
> Another possibility, but then he obviously has some knowledge of
> survival/combat skill s (i.e. Paradise Lost).

I'd say that proved the exact opposite!  Harry was crap at survival skills.
Ended up dynamiting fish as he couldn't even use a hook and line.  Couldn't set
a trap without using a grenade (a non-replacable item) whereas I'm sure Jack
would have been able to rig a trap from wood and string to achivce a similar
end.  He drank the water without boiling it or using purification tablets.
Nope, I don't think Harry was even a boy scout, let alone had any decent
survival training.

>
>
> I agree with this to some extent, but not necessarily for the same reaons.  I
> tend to discount a lot of what actors say about their characters for several
reasons.
>
>
> Acutally from what I've read of interviews with Tom, he's really attached to
Harry. Ha
> tes his actions, but gets into playing him. So I agree with you to a greater
extent on
>  how some actors describe their characters, but Tom seems to take
> it abit more to heart. Also, have you ever seen Tom in that offbeat Nick Fury
flick? I
> t's Harry in a suit & fedora. So a lot of the personality has to be coming
from the ac
> tor's abilities more so than that of the writer.

I agree a lot of the personality has to be Tom.  I am firmly convinced that you
can't act that style of quirky commedy unless you have a touch of it yourself.
Anyone can act gloom or love.  We all have that in us.  But commedy requires a
particular ability to read people and to see the funny side of life.

Harry got more and more good-humoured the longer Tom played him.  I'm sure the
writers were picking up on the way Tom was playing him.

I've never seen Tom in anything else.  If you have anything on video, I'd love
to see it.  (I can play PAL and NTSC)

>
> >I'm with you to some extent because I don't think Harry has a family life.
>
> I've often wondered if he was an only child. He seems to have frequent bouts
> of petula nt behaviour. lol Maybe his parents are supposed to be dead. What do
> you think?

I think you're right.  Harry reeks of only child to me.  Or certainly reeks of
'man with no family'.  ONly child seems most likely, or else they all refuse to
talk to him any more!  (I could also seem him as having had a failed mariage)

>
> > No social life, but more than that, the entire culture of secrecy.  You
> > can't trust a > nyone.  The only reason you seek to gain trust is to betray
> > it.  That can make a man v ery cynical, so cynical that he may find it
> > impossible to trust an yone himself.
>
> Would also make any long term romantic relationship impossible.

Oh yes.  Except in the extremely unlikely event he could find someone in the SGC
who actually fancied him.  (I've suspected him of having a slight crush on
Carter since 'Foothold', there's a scene right at the end that's rather telling.
But, having said that, I don't think it's a big issue for him.)

>
> > That's why he keeps people at arm's length - it's the legecy of the NID.

>   Well, yes and no. I think there's more to the arm's length thing.
> Intelligence work or not, there are usually other "quirks" in someone's
> personality to make them so tolera nt of it. Don't you think he gives off the
> possibility of some emo tional insecurity? He has moments of trying too damned
> hard that seem beyond patriotism.

Do you think so?  I don't see that as much in him.  (apart from bits like the
end of 'Foothold' where he's almost begging to be allowed into their lives and
they take the micky the moment the door has closed behind him)

I don't see him as emotionally insecure, but as emotionally needy.

Are you thinking of any particular scenes?  Give me a feel for what you're
thinking of.

>
>
> > But it passes the time so nicely <grin>.  It gives me something to chat to
> > my friends  about.
>
> I'm alone in that. lol My Aunt likes Daniel and doesn't really get into all of
> this de tail. Friend wise it's LOTR or Trek. But it definitely passes time
> wonderfully. All th e 'Happy Harry Moments' as my friend calls them.

Daniel is very sweet, but lacks Harry's devious approach to life.  In the end,
it's the more complex characters that interest me.  Delving into the detail is
half the fun.

JUdith

PS.  I'm trying to remember something from teh first episode.  Am I right in
saying that Hammond came to the SGC from Area 51?

--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 -  the largest Blake's 7 site on the web
http://www.knightwriter.org - 1,500 fanzines for sale in 90+ fandoms
http://www.smof.com/redemption - B7/B5/Beyond Redemption 25-27 Feb '05

>On what do you base that?

>It's possible to be in charge of something without having experience in it.
Look at how government posts get shuffled around in both real life and fiction.
Kinsey moved from apropriations to intelligence.  do you believe he had either
an economics/accountancy qualification or expertise in intelligence?

It's more based upon personal opinion. I think Harry would be more than likely
trained in far more areas than we would be made aware of. Hacker-type spy or
not, he's gotta have pretty darn good knowledge of how to get his toukis out on
his own. Also the way he's portrayed as being rather ruthless concerning other
life (i.e. Enigma or Bane), what do you think that would stem from?

I think probably he began in something simple like economics but later went into
intelligence. Found his niche' so to speak.


>I think Harry got that job because he's a good organiser as much as anything
(he has a medal ribbon for 'organisational excellence').  I also think he has
some skills in that area, but mainly in the computer hacking/sneaking in an out
of places type of skills.

I've been meaning to get a close up pick of his ribbons and run through what
they're for. I'm bored, and you never know until you try. The people on the show
might have considered little details like that.

>O'Neill's black ops skills are far more
combat/survival related.

Of course, but cells similar to black ops are also used for intelligence not
just combat/neutralization missions. I could see Harry doing something like
that.


>Harry has done at least two overseas tours of duty (might be where he learnt to
speak Russian - I assume he can as he dealt with them on a couple of occasions)

Probably does, seems to be somewhat common. My ex speaks like 5 languages,
including Russian and I think he mostly did sniper/sharpshooting. He even had me
speaking a little of it after a while. lol


>but he has no combat medals of any kind - in sharp contrast to O'Neill.

Well, ya never know. They also are given medals for missions that are top
secret, the medals are usually not worn or displayed. Another 'from what I was
told' item.


>I think Harry would be right at home in the industrial espionage kind of field,
but
totally lost in an operation that required trekking through open terrain to do
aguerrila raid at the end of it.  That's Jack's area.  He was doing that sort of
thing in the Gulf War and also at other times.  Their skills are largely
complementary, not overlapping.

Another possibility, but then he obviously has some knowledge of survival/combat
skills (i.e. Paradise Lost).


I agree with this to some extent, but not necessarily for the same reaons.  I
tend to discount a lot of what actors say about their characters for several
reasons.


Acutally from what I've read of interviews with Tom, he's really attached to
Harry. Hates his actions, but gets into playing him. So I agree with you to a
greater extent on how some actors describe their characters, but Tom seems to
take it abit more to heart. Also, have you ever seen Tom in that offbeat Nick
Fury flick? It's Harry in a suit & fedora. So a lot of the personality has to be
coming from the actor's abilities more so than that of the writer.

>I'm with you to some extent because I don't think Harry has a family life.

I've often wondered if he was an only child. He seems to have frequent bouts of
petulant behaviour. lol Maybe his parents are supposed to be dead. What do you
think?


>>Wenever have so much of a hint as to anyone in his life and he doesn't
contradict
Jack when Jack makes a crack about no-one visiting him in prison.  I'd guess
he's one of these people who doesn't have much of a personal life and hence
compensates by putting everything into his job.  (If he'd had anyone he cared
about, he wouldn't have wanted to leave Earth in 'Paradise Lost').  I also think
it helps explain '48 Hours'.  There's nothing for him to gain by coming back
into the country to help Jack.  He's risking arrest.  But it's important to him
to tell Jack that he wasn't the one who shot him.  He also wants to help rescue
Teal'c.  (remember 'Bane' <grin>)  SG-1 have become his substitute family.  They
don't give much of a damn about him, but that's still more than anyone else
gives.

I agree with you pretty much here.


>No social life, but more than that, the entire culture of secrecy.  You can't
trust anyone.  The only reason you seek to gain trust is to betray it.  That can
make a man very cynical, so cynical that he may find it impossible to trust
anyone himself.

Would also make any long term romantic relationship impossible.

>That's why he keeps people at arm's length - it's the legecy of the NID.

Well, yes and no. I think there's more to the arm's length thing. Intelligence
work or not, there are usually other "quirks" in someone's personality to make
them so tolerant of it. Don't you think he gives off the possibility of some
emotional insecurity? He has moments of trying too damned hard that seem beyond
patriotism.


>But it passes the time so nicely <grin>.  It gives me something to chat to my
friends about.

I'm alone in that. lol My Aunt likes Daniel and doesn't really get into all of
this detail. Friend wise it's LOTR or Trek. But it definitely passes time
wonderfully. All the 'Happy Harry Moments' as my friend calls them.








~Miana~

*************************

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The
latter cannot understand it when a [person] does not thoughtlessly submit to
hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses their intelligence." ~
Einstein

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>That's my Harry. I think he'd get involved any way he could - I was pondering
the civilian angle last night.  After all, Daniel's a civilian.

Heaven knows how they record Teal'c on the books...


I've always wondered if they even pay Teal'c. lol



~Miana~

*************************

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The
latter cannot understand it when a [person] does not thoughtlessly submit to
hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses their intelligence." ~
Einstein

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Sat 07 Jun, Miana Hawkins-Fowler wrote:
> >'mercenary' as in money-grubbing as opposed to 'mercenary' as in paid
soldier, I
> assume.
>
> I'm more leaning towards a little bit of both. Harry was over the black-ops at
Area 51
> , he's had to of had some sort of training in that area.

On what do you base that?

It's possible to be in charge of something without having experience in it.
Look at how government posts get shuffled around in both real life and fiction.
Kinsey moved from apropriations to intelligence.  do you believe he had either
an economics/accountancy qualification or expertise in intelligence?

I think Harry got that job because he's a good organiser as much as anything
(he has a medal ribbon for 'organisational excellence').  I also think he has
some skills in that area, but mainly in the computer hacking/sneaking in an out
of places type of skills.  O'Neill's black ops skills are far more
combat/survival related.

Harry has done at least two overseas tours of duty (might be where he learnt to
speak Russian - I assume he can as he dealt with them on a couple of occasions),
but he has no combat medals of any kind - in sharp contrast to O'Neill.  I think
Harry would be right at home in the industrial espionage kind of field, but
totally lost in an operation that required trekking through open terrain to do a
guerrila raid at the end of it.  That's Jack's area.  He was doing that sort of
thing in the Gulf War and also at other times.  Their skills are largely
complementary, not overlapping.

> > 3.  Power.  Harry likes being in control.  If he can't control the SGC,
> > he'll  set up his own operation.
>
> Yes, but speaking from a psychological point of view. One who is in dire need
> of controlling (Tom himself said Harry's a major megalomaniac) his situation
> in some way and that of others usually feels insecure in other areas of his
> life. H e lacks control say, in his family or romantic life, so he's all
> gungho at work. I've  always wondered if Harry was supposed to have been
> compensating for something. He does seem to like keeping everyone at an arms
> length. Simple insecurit y? Fear of getting hurt? Had a rough childhood?

I agree with this to some extent, but not necessarily for the same reaons.  I
tend to discount a lot of what actors say about their characters for several
reasons.

a.  If they find something will get a laugh from the audience, they'll say it.

b.  TV is do the job and go.  It's filmed out of sequence and the overview can
be hard to see from inside, let alone remember in detail afterwards.  Actors
talk of 'TV wipe' - you say the lines and then you forget them. It isn't like
stage work where you have to memorise it all.

c.  I always assume the writer has the best insight into the characters (though
as writers come and go, this doesn't always apply.)  In the case of Stargate,
there are some writers I trust more than others.

I'm with you to some extent because I don't think Harry has a family life.  We
never have so much of a hint as to anyone in his life and he doesn't contradict
Jack when Jack makes a crack about no-one visiting him in prison.  I'd guess
he's one of these people who doesn't have much of a personal life and hence
compensates by putting everything into his job.  (If he'd had anyone he cared
about, he wouldn't have wanted to leave Earth in 'Paradise Lost').  I also think
it helps explain '48 Hours'.  There's nothing for him to gain by coming back
into the country to help Jack.  He's risking arrest.  But it's important to him
to tell Jack that he wasn't the one who shot him.  He also wants to help rescue
Teal'c.  (remember 'Bane' <grin>)  SG-1 have become his substitute family.  They
don't give much of a damn about him, but that's still more than anyone else
gives.

I think when Harry first got into intelligence work, it was enormous fun - so
much fun that he didn't realise how isolating it was going to be.  Long periods
away from home, hours spend watching people, more hours hacking into machines.
No social life, but more than that, the entire culture of secrecy.  You can't
trust anyone.  The only reason you seek to gain trust is to betray it.  That can
make a man very cynical, so cynical that he may find it impossible to trust
anyone himself.

That's why he keeps people at arm's length - it's the legecy of the NID.

> YES I know I think too much about this rubbish. lol

But it passes the time so nicely <grin>.  It gives me something to chat to my
friends about.

Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 -  the largest Blake's 7 site on the web
http://www.knightwriter.org - 1,500 fanzines for sale in 90+ fandoms
http://www.smof.com/redemption - B7/B5/Beyond Redemption 25-27 Feb '05

On Sat 07 Jun, Miana Hawkins-Fowler wrote:
> >Oddly enough, I think Harry would try every form of blackmail except that of
>> threaten ing to reveal the existence of the SGC. He'd certainly play every
>> other card he could.
> >  Harry's no shrinking violet.
>
> Absitively posolutely. He's a survivor, all for one and all for himself. He'd
> find a w ay to either get back into it as a civilian, or make it where SGC
> would have to call o n him every once in a while. I think he also loves being
> needed.

That's my Harry. I think he'd get involved any way he could - I was pondering
the civilian angle last night.  After all, Daniel's a civilian.

Heaven knows how they record Teal'c on the books...

Judith

--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 -  the largest Blake's 7 site on the web
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>Thanks.  It's always been my experience that in any group of fans, you will
always find one with the necessary knowledge for a given story.  this theory has
never yet failed me and has produced data on everything from sheep diseases
onwards (anyone needing help in teh other direction may note that I'm strong on
Earth sciences and have a really brilliant book on ancient mathematical systems
(you want to do addition in heiroglyphs...)

Judith

Same here, I get most of my best research info from other fans. We all come from
so many backgrounds and walks of life that it's pretty much easy to find someone
into a little bit of anything/everything. (My strong points are usually
psychology, forensics, and anything literary. But I am prone to severe bouts of
blonde moments. lol) I'm probably going to also ask for a few references from
some of the folks in an group I'm in on here that's predominantly Asian for more
info on the folklore/history on Yu. I'll let you know if I find out anything
besides the basic drabble.




~Miana~

"The greater the obstacle, the more glory in overcoming it" - Moliere

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>Oddly enough, I think Harry would try every form of blackmail except that of
threatening to reveal the existence of the SGC. He'd certainly play every other
card he could.  Harry's no shrinking violet.

Absitively posolutely. He's a survivor, all for one and all for himself. He'd
find a way to either get back into it as a civilian, or make it where SGC would
have to call on him every once in a while. I think he also loves being needed.





~Miana~

"The greater the obstacle, the more glory in overcoming it" - Moliere

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>'mercenary' as in money-grubbing as opposed to 'mercenary' as in paid soldier,
I
assume.

I'm more leaning towards a little bit of both. Harry was over the black-ops at
Area 51, he's had to of had some sort of training in that area.

>That's for sure. He usually has the situation covered from at least two angles.

Definitely. He's always been my kind of control freak. lol Overly prepared for
every situation.

>   Have any of you ever wondered what would cause a man to turn out like Harry
> did?

1.  Love of competition - he's incredibly competitative.  He can't resist a
challenge.  I'm sure that's half the reason he helps out O'Neill.  It's that
urge to say 'You can't fix this, but I can'.

The sheer fun of stealing from more powerful aliens and doing it under the nose
of the SGC - that's a challenge.

2.  Patriotism.  I think Harry's a patriot.  It just happens to lead him in
different directions.  Put yourself in his head and tell yourself that Earth's
allies are not in fact giving us anything useful.  Why shouldn't we get
something useful from them?  (I'm sure Jack had fleeting feelings in that
direction himself, especially with regard to the Tollan.  That's why he was able
to put on such a convincing act in 'Shades of Grey'.)

3.  Power.  Harry likes being in control.  If he can't control the SGC, he'll
set up his own operation.

Yes, but speaking from a psychological point of view. One who is in dire need of
controlling (Tom himself said Harry's a major megalomaniac) his situation in
some way and that of others usually feels insecure in other areas of his life.
He lacks control say, in his family or romantic life, so he's all gungho at
work. I've always wondered if Harry was supposed to have been compensating for
something. He does seem to like keeping everyone at an arms length. Simple
insecurity? Fear of getting hurt? Had a rough childhood?

YES I know I think too much about this rubbish. lol



~Miana~

"The greater the obstacle, the more glory in overcoming it" - Moliere

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Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).

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