From: felaries65 <felaries65@...>
Subject: [northandsouth] Patrick Swayze (1952-2009)
To: northandsouth@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 8:58 PM

 

Patrick Swayze, also known as Orry Main from the <b>"NORTH AND SOUTH"</b> saga, has finally passed away after a two-year bout with cancer. He was 57 years old.

http://www.reuters. com/article/ newsOne/idUSTRE5 8E02O20090915

AP Exclusive: No Carradine suicide, expert says

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AP â€“ FILE - This May 17, 2003 file photo shows American actor, David Carradine, smiles as he arrives for the â€¦

• Slideshow:Actor David Carradine found dead
• Play Video Video:Carradine mystery continues Reuters
• Play Video Video:Carradine family takes action on probe, photos AP

By ANTHONY McCARTNEY, AP Entertainment Writer Anthony Mccartney, Ap Entertainment Writer – 1 hr 26 mins ago

LOS ANGELES – The forensics expert hired by David Carradine's family has concluded that the "Kung Fu" actor did not commit suicide, but said that more information was needed from Thai investigators before the cause of death could be determined.

Carradine's brothers, Keith and Robert Carradine, each read part of a prepared statement to reporters from The Associated Press at a Los Angeles hotel Thursday morning. In their first appearance since their older brother was found hanging in a Bangkok hotel room closet last week, they thanked supporters and asked for privacy.

"This is a devastating loss for our family and we greatly appreciate the compassion pouring in from all over the world," Keith Carradine said.

They also released a statement by Dr. Michael Baden of New York that indicated a second autopsy determined Carradine didn't kill himself.

"However, to reach a final determination as to the cause and the manner of death we must wait for further information from Thailand as to the scene findings and the completion of the crime laboratory and toxicology studies that are still being performed," Baden's statement said.

Reached by phone after the morning briefing, Baden said he expects to receive more information from Thai authorities in a week or two and stressed that the information at hand was incomplete. Baden didn't elaborate on how suicide was ruled out

"The autopsy is only part of the analysis," he said.

In the meantime, Robert Carradine asked the public and press for patience and time to allow the family to grieve.

"Until we have all of the pending results of the investigation we respectfully ask ... that we be allowed to lay our beloved brother, husband, father, grandfather and great-grandfather to rest in peace and with dignity," Robert Carradine said.

Rampant speculation about the actor's death has swirled since a chambermaid at the luxury Swissotel Nai Lert Park Hotel in Bangkok discovered his body hanging in the closet of his room June 4. A Thai newspaper published a graphic photo of the death scene that police have said appears to be a leaked forensics image.

Thai police initially said they suspected Carradine's death was a suicide, but later conceded it could have been accidental. Their description — that the actor's body was found nude, with ropes around his neck, wrist and genitals — fueled speculation that he was killed while engaging in a dangerous sex practice called auto-erotic asphyxiation.

Thai authorities said on June 5 that it would take about three weeks for the results of their autopsy to be released.

Medical examiners in the United States and Canada generally classify auto-erotic asphyxiation deaths as accidental.

Keith Carradine last week asked the FBI to take a role, and Thai authorities later said they would allow FBI agents to observe their investigation, but not take an active role. FBI spokeswoman Laura Eimiller said earlier this week that the agency would not make any more comments about its role in the Carradine investigation, but that agents stationed in Thailand have a good relationship with local authorities.

Agents typically only get involved in the deaths of U.S. citizens abroad when foul play is involved, she said.

Others who knew the 72-year-old actor have said they suspect foul play was involved. Keith and Robert Carradine on Thursday urged everyone to wait until the investigation has concluded.

"Once the investigation is fully completed and definitive conclusions have been reached, we will address the findings with the public," Robert Carradine said.

Both Keith and Robert Carradine shared the screen with their brother, a prolific TV and film actor. David Carradine rose to prominence for his role on the "Kung Fu" series in the 1970s and experienced a resurgence in popularity after his role in Quentin Tarantino's "Kill Bill" movies earlier this decade.

The family's statement did not indicate the location of his body, or offer any information about funeral arrangements. They did not take questions Thursday after reading the statements.

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From: Rosamund Powell <rosiepowell2000@...>
Subject: Re: [northandsouth] LOOK BACK - "North and South: Book II" (1986)
To: northandsouth@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, April 27, 2009, 8:35 PM

I had no problem with Constance, whatsoever.  In fact, I think she gave one of the best lines in the entire miniseries. --- On Tue, 4/21/09, Amanda A. Brooks <abrooks1@pacbell. net> wrote: From: Amanda A. Brooks <abrooks1@pacbell. net> Subject: Re: [northandsouth] LOOK BACK - "North and South: Book II" (1986) To: northandsouth@ yahoogroups. com Date: Tuesday, April 21, 2009, 2:50 PM Did you like or dislike anything about Constance? -AAB :) --- On Tue, 4/21/09, rosiepowell2000 <rosiepowell2000@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: rosiepowell2000 <rosiepowell2000@ yahoo.com> Subject: [northandsouth] LOOK BACK - "North and South: Book II" (1986) To: northandsouth@ yahoogroups. com Date: Tuesday, April 21, 2009, 11:43 AM Look Back – "NORTH AND SOUTH: BOOK II" (1986) Judging from past articles I have written about the "NORTH AND SOUTH" Trilogy, one would surmise that of the three miniseries that have aired in the past decades (two in the 1980s and one in the 1990s) that I seemed to have the most problem with the second miniseries in the trilogy, namely "BOOK II". And if I have to be honest, one would be right. It is odd that I would choose the second miniseries as the most problematic of the three. "BOOK II" is set during the years of the Civil War – a historical conflict that has heavily attracted my attention for so many years that I cannot measure how long. "BOOK III", which aired at least eight years after the second miniseries, was set during the early years of Reconstruction and has a reputation amongst the "NORTH AND SOUTH" fans as being inferior to the other two. But for some reason, I have had more of a problem with "BOOK II". So I have decided to examine each of the six episodes of the 1986 miniseries to determine why this chapter in the "NORTH AND SOUTH" trilogy is such a problem for me. Episode 1: Without a doubt, Episode 1 of "BOOK II" is my favorite in the entire miniseries. It re-introduced the main characters in the story. It also set the stage for the main characters' experiences during the war, for the rest of the story. It featured an excellent opening shot on the streets of Washington D.C. that introduced both Brett Main Hazard, and the slave Semiramis. It also featured a well shot sequence that centered around a colorful ball at the Spotswood Hotel (in Richmond) attended by Ashton and James Huntoon. Most importantly, it featured one of my favorite battle scenes – namely the Battle of Bull Run that was fought near Manassas, Virginia on July 18, 1861. If I have to be frank, this interpretation of Bull Run remains my favorite. Director Kevin Connors filmed the entire sequence with great style and skill and composer Bill Conti injected it with a brash, yet haunting score that still give me goose bumps whenever I watch it. Even better, the sequence ended with actress Wendy Kilbourne uttering one of the best lines in the entire trilogy. I do have a few quibbles about "BOOK I". First of all, it introduced Charles Main's role as a cavalry scout for the Confederate Army. Considering that he started out as a Captain in this miniseries, it made no sense to me that he and another officer (a first lieutenant) would be participating in scout duties that usually fell to enlisted men. I guess one could call it as an example of the story being historically inaccurate. My last quibble featured the character of Elkhannah Bent. What was he doing with the portrait of Madeline Fabray LaMotte's mother? The audience knew that he had procured it from an expensive whorehouse in New Orleans. But Bent had no idea that Madeline was romantically involved with one of his nemesis, Orry Main, until after Ashton Main Huntoon informed him. So, why did he bother to get his hands on the painting at a time when he was ignorant of the romantic and emotional connection between Orry and Madeline? Episode 2: The first third of this episode featured the aftermath of Bull Run, Brett Main Hazard and Semiramis' trip to South Carolina, Orry Main's wedding to his widowed neighbor Madeline LaMotte, and Elkhannah Bent and Ashton Main Huntoon's smuggling operations. I wish I could be objective about this particular episode, but I cannot. I dislike it too much. It is one of the mainreasons why I have so much difficulty with Book II in the first place. My main beef with this episode's story centered around the plotline that featured Brett and Semiramis' journey south to Mont Royal, following the Bull Run battle. First of all, I believe that this particular plotline was badly written. Brett and Semiramis should not have had any difficulties getting past Union lines, since nearly the entire Union Army had fled to Washington in disarray, following the battle. Second, once they had reached Richmond and delivered the message about Clarissa, they could have accompanied Orry back to South Carolina. They would have arrived at Mont Royal in late July or early August 1861, instead of November 1861. And why did it take them so long to reach South Carolina in the first place? Surely, the two could have traveled by train. The Union Army had not begun destroying Southern railroad tracks during the summer of 1861. And one last question – why on earth was a message sent to Brett in Washington D.C. in the first place? An accommodating neighbor of the Mains or a local doctor could have sent the message about Clarissa to Orry in Richmond. It would have been a lot easier. And quicker. Talk about bad writing! However, there were some good moments in this episode. George and Orry had a bittersweet reunion inside a barn, while both were traveling to their respective capitals. Charles visited the widowed Augusta Barclay's farm after being injured by Union cavalry. And in one brief scene, Congressman Greene had an embarrassed reaction to a wounded soldier that did David Odgen Stiers' skills proud as an actor. Unfortunately, these well done moments could not save an otherwise dull episode. Episode 3: I have mixed feelings about this particular episode. Fortunately, most of my feelings are positive. Aside from the Antietam battle that included Billy Hazard and Charles Main's brief and dramatic reunion, I found the first half hour of Episode 3 to be rather dull and interesting. I do have a small quibble about the Antietam battle. How did Charles and Ambrose go from being calvary scouts to leading men on the field? Were the troops' officers dead? And what kind of troops were they leading? Infantry or dismounted calvary? The death of Semiramis' friend, Jim, at the hands of the former Main overseer (Salem Jones) and Cuffey's bitter departure from Mont Royal proved to be mildly interesting, thanks to the excellent acting by Erica Gimbel and especially, Forest Whittaker. However, I did Brett and Madeline's presence the funeral a touch self-righteous. But that is merely a private opinion. The second half of the episode was a big improvement. Most of the slaves left Mont Royal and I did not blame them one bit. Orry's reaction to their departure was interesting, considering how "BOOK I" had established his slight aversion to slavery. More importantly, his character came off as increasingly conservative, considering that in the novel, his view on slavery become slightly more radical. That little moment between Patrick Swayze and Jean Simmons was lovely and touching. I have mixed feelings about Billy's decision to go AWOL in order to see Brett in South Carolina. Frankly, I found it disturbing. I do not blame him for missing Brett. If the writers had not written Episode 2 the way they did, she would have remained in the North and he would not have went AWOL. Ashton's appearance at Mont Royal really stirred things a bit. It was very enjoyable segment in the episode. I found hers and Bent's revenge against Orry by using Madeline's family secret, a bit anti-climatic. Frankly, I thought they could have used something more dramatic . . . like expose Madeline's secret to neighbors. However, their act of revenge did result in a marvelous scene well acted by Terri Garber and Lesley Anne Down. Semiramis' rant against Ashton was nice touch, if a bit fruitless. But it was Brett's confrontation with Ashton that really did justice to this episode. Kudos to Garber and especially Genie Francis. Veteran stars James Stewart and Olivia DeHavilland appeared near the end of this episode. Did anyone know that those two once dated in the late 1930s? Anyway, Stewart's appearance as Madeline's attorney was charming. However, DeHavilland' s appearance in the episode showed more promise. I could not decide on what was more irritating - Virgilia's arrogant disregard for her supervisor or Mrs. Neal's patronizing concern for Southern patients. And both DeHavilland and Kirstie Alley did a great job. Despite a few quibbles and a dull first half hour, Episode 3 was an improvement over Episode 2. Episode 4: What can I say about Episode 4? It was pretty strong. At least the first half. I found the second half a little dull, aside from two scenes – one poignant and one creepy. The episode started out with a strong sequence that featured George's capture by Mosby's Rangers. This first half hour also featured the beginning of Charles' affair with Augusta Barclay and the Battle of the Wilderness. I have one minor and one major quibble. I wish that Charles and Augusta's affair had begun a lot sooner than three years after they first met. It will prove to be a major problem in Episode 6. My major quibble had to do with Billy's return to his regiment, after being AWOL for nearly ten months (he had left after the Gettysburg battle in July 1863 and returned to his regiment in early May 1864). And what happened? He was lectured by Colonel Berdan and passed over for a promotion to captain (were there any captains in Berdan's Sharpshooters. What on earth were the writers thinking? Billy should have been faced a court-martial for being absent without leave for ten months. Whoever had written this episode must have been completely ignorant of military protocol. If found guilty, Billy would have faced a prison sentence or a dishonorable discharge. An enlisted man would have possibly been shot. Berdan's excuse for his leniency toward Billy? He needed all available men. Hogwash! This was the Spring of 1864, when the Union Army's ranks were filled even more for the remaining year or so of the war. No other TV show, novel, play or etc., would have featured such a major writing gaffe. Then again, you never know. On the other hand, I was very impressed by the Battle of the Wilderness sequence. Director Kevin Connor used a newsreel style that gave it a stark and realistic look. I also enjoyed General Grant's response to his staff's fears over Robert E. Lee. Good acting by Anthony Zerbe, by the way. Another positive aspect of Episode 4 turned out to be Ashton and James Huntoon's marriage woes. Terri Garber and Jim Metzler did an excellent job of conveying how Ashton's infidelity, Huntoon's political failures and the war but a toll on a marriage that had been loveless from the start. I found Madeline's efforts to help war refugees in Charleston noble . . . and dull as hell. The sequence introduced a young former slave named Michael and his mother, who came from Tennessee. I really had a problem with this. Why would slaves head deep into Confederate territory, when they could have easily ended up in Union held cities like Memphis and Vicksburg? However, this sequence featured a young Bumper Robinson as Michael, who managed to act circles around Lesley Anne Down (as if that were possible). And it introduced the delicious Lee Horsley as a disgraced army officer-turned- wastrel. He and Down managed to create a sparkling screen chemistry. I did not find other parts of Episode 4 particularly interesting - except for George's capture and incarceration inside Libby Prison. I never thought I would say this, but Wayne Newton made a damn fine villain. He nearly put Philip Casnoff, David Carradine and Terri Garber to shame. His performance certainly gave the Libby Prison sequence a creep factor that I found very effective. And there was the matter of Virgilia's continuing feud with Mrs.Neal. I found both ladies unsympathetic, until Mrs. Neal decided to harass Virgilia, while the other was having trouble staying awake after long hours of work. I found that a tad bitchy. And both DeHavilland and Alley continue to shine in their scenes together. Other than that, Episode 4 was a mixed bag. It was not one of my favorites and it had two very questionable storylines, but was certainly not a disappointment either. Episode 5: This is hard . . . well, perhaps it is not as hard as I thought. Next to Episode 2, Episode 5 is my least favorite episode in the entire "NORTH AND SOUTH" Trilogy. Aside from a few interesting moments, I found it incredibly slow. The good moments featured Orry and Charles' rescue of George from Libby Prison. Following a vague reunion with his old friend, George is reunited with his wife Constance and the rest of his family on Christmas Day. Which was a nice. And George's discovery of his older brother Stanley and sister-in-law Isabel's illegal connection to Axol Iron turned out to be an excellent dramatic moment. I was especially impressed by James Read and Jonathan Frakes' performances. The only other moments I found interesting were Virgilia's travails with the hostile Mrs. Neal; her sad willingness to sell herself to Congressman Greene for protection from prosecution and the death Rafe Beaudine, of whom I became a bigger fan. I also have to commend Patrick Swayze for his excellent performance at the end of the episode. In this scene, he did a beautiful job of expressing Orry's rage over Ashton and Bent's plot against Madeline. Other than that, I do not have much to recommend about Episode 5. It featured Charles and Augusta's last days together. I will say more about this for Episode 6. All I can say that there was something terribly wrong with this scene. Brett and Semiramis' travails with Salem Jones bored me senseless . . . along with Madeline's continuing efforts to feed all of Charleston's poor. Only Rafe Beaudine's death made this particular sequence interesting. Ashton, Bent and Huntoon bored me senseless and I was glad to see them gone by the end of the episode. Episode 5 was generally a depressing and boring episode. Time to move on. Episode 6: This particular episode could have been considered my favorite of "BOOK II", if it were not for a few matters. My problems with Episode 6? First of all, two months after he last saw Augusta Barclay in Episode 5, Charles discovered that he was the father of an infant boy. Apparently Augusta had died in childbirth. However . . . Augusta definitely DID NOT look pregnant during her last meeting with Charles. And considering that they had made love, her pregnancy should not have come as a surprise to him. Even worse, young Augustus Charles Main looked as if he had been conceived nearly two years ago. Honestly. The kid looked at least one year old. And Charles and Augusta had started their affair eleven months earlier. One last problem I had with this episode was Patrick Swayze's performance as he expressed his grief over the death of his mother, Clarissa Main. All I can say is . . . OVER-THE-TOP Fortunately, there is more for me to praise about Episode 6. One of the miniseries' strengths has always been its battle scenes. And this particular episode featured an exciting interpretation of the Battle at Petersburg. Also included in this episode is the recreation of the Surrender at Appomattox, made poignant by Anthony Zerbe and William Schallert's performances as Generals Grant and Lee. Both James Read and Kirstie Alley once again displayed their acting skills in a tearful scene that featured George and Virgilia's reconciliation before her execution for the murder of Sam Greene. Last, but not least was Salem Jones and Cuffey's action-packed assault on Mont Royal near the end of the episode. Conclusion: Do not get me wrong. There is a lot to admire about "NORTH AND SOUTH: BOOK II". Like its predecessor, "NORTH AND SOUTH", it has its share of good acting, exciting sequences, drama, superb production values, and probably the best costume design in the entire trilogy thanks to Robert Fletcher's work. Unfortunately, the miniseries has its share of flaws, which includes clunky dialogue and probably some of the worst writing in the entire trilogy. Writing that featured a great deal of plot hole and historical inaccuracies. Still . . . I love it anyway.

From: Amanda A. Brooks <abrooks1@...>
Subject: Re: [northandsouth] LOOK BACK - "North and South: Book II" (1986)
To: northandsouth@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, April 21, 2009, 2:50 PM

Did you like or dislike anything about Constance? -AAB :) --- On Tue, 4/21/09, rosiepowell2000 <rosiepowell2000@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: rosiepowell2000 <rosiepowell2000@ yahoo.com> Subject: [northandsouth] LOOK BACK - "North and South: Book II" (1986) To: northandsouth@ yahoogroups. com Date: Tuesday, April 21, 2009, 11:43 AM Look Back – "NORTH AND SOUTH: BOOK II" (1986) Judging from past articles I have written about the "NORTH AND SOUTH" Trilogy, one would surmise that of the three miniseries that have aired in the past decades (two in the 1980s and one in the 1990s) that I seemed to have the most problem with the second miniseries in the trilogy, namely "BOOK II". And if I have to be honest, one would be right. It is odd that I would choose the second miniseries as the most problematic of the three. "BOOK II" is set during the years of the Civil War – a historical conflict that has heavily attracted my attention for so many years that I cannot measure how long. "BOOK III", which aired at least eight years after the second miniseries, was set during the early years of Reconstruction and has a reputation amongst the "NORTH AND SOUTH" fans as being inferior to the other two. But for some reason, I have had more of a problem with "BOOK II". So I have decided to examine each of the six episodes of the 1986 miniseries to determine why this chapter in the "NORTH AND SOUTH" trilogy is such a problem for me. Episode 1: Without a doubt, Episode 1 of "BOOK II" is my favorite in the entire miniseries. It re-introduced the main characters in the story. It also set the stage for the main characters' experiences during the war, for the rest of the story. It featured an excellent opening shot on the streets of Washington D.C. that introduced both Brett Main Hazard, and the slave Semiramis. It also featured a well shot sequence that centered around a colorful ball at the Spotswood Hotel (in Richmond) attended by Ashton and James Huntoon. Most importantly, it featured one of my favorite battle scenes – namely the Battle of Bull Run that was fought near Manassas, Virginia on July 18, 1861. If I have to be frank, this interpretation of Bull Run remains my favorite. Director Kevin Connors filmed the entire sequence with great style and skill and composer Bill Conti injected it with a brash, yet haunting score that still give me goose bumps whenever I watch it. Even better, the sequence ended with actress Wendy Kilbourne uttering one of the best lines in the entire trilogy. I do have a few quibbles about "BOOK I". First of all, it introduced Charles Main's role as a cavalry scout for the Confederate Army. Considering that he started out as a Captain in this miniseries, it made no sense to me that he and another officer (a first lieutenant) would be participating in scout duties that usually fell to enlisted men. I guess one could call it as an example of the story being historically inaccurate. My last quibble featured the character of Elkhannah Bent. What was he doing with the portrait of Madeline Fabray LaMotte's mother? The audience knew that he had procured it from an expensive whorehouse in New Orleans. But Bent had no idea that Madeline was romantically involved with one of his nemesis, Orry Main, until after Ashton Main Huntoon informed him. So, why did he bother to get his hands on the painting at a time when he was ignorant of the romantic and emotional connection between Orry and Madeline? Episode 2: The first third of this episode featured the aftermath of Bull Run, Brett Main Hazard and Semiramis' trip to South Carolina, Orry Main's wedding to his widowed neighbor Madeline LaMotte, and Elkhannah Bent and Ashton Main Huntoon's smuggling operations. I wish I could be objective about this particular episode, but I cannot. I dislike it too much. It is one of the mainreasons why I have so much difficulty with Book II in the first place. My main beef with this episode's story centered around the plotline that featured Brett and Semiramis' journey south to Mont Royal, following the Bull Run battle. First of all, I believe that this particular plotline was badly written. Brett and Semiramis should not have had any difficulties getting past Union lines, since nearly the entire Union Army had fled to Washington in disarray, following the battle. Second, once they had reached Richmond and delivered the message about Clarissa, they could have accompanied Orry back to South Carolina. They would have arrived at Mont Royal in late July or early August 1861, instead of November 1861. And why did it take them so long to reach South Carolina in the first place? Surely, the two could have traveled by train. The Union Army had not begun destroying Southern railroad tracks during the summer of 1861. And one last question – why on earth was a message sent to Brett in Washington D.C. in the first place? An accommodating neighbor of the Mains or a local doctor could have sent the message about Clarissa to Orry in Richmond. It would have been a lot easier. And quicker. Talk about bad writing! However, there were some good moments in this episode. George and Orry had a bittersweet reunion inside a barn, while both were traveling to their respective capitals. Charles visited the widowed Augusta Barclay's farm after being injured by Union cavalry. And in one brief scene, Congressman Greene had an embarrassed reaction to a wounded soldier that did David Odgen Stiers' skills proud as an actor. Unfortunately, these well done moments could not save an otherwise dull episode. Episode 3: I have mixed feelings about this particular episode. Fortunately, most of my feelings are positive. Aside from the Antietam battle that included Billy Hazard and Charles Main's brief and dramatic reunion, I found the first half hour of Episode 3 to be rather dull and interesting. I do have a small quibble about the Antietam battle. How did Charles and Ambrose go from being calvary scouts to leading men on the field? Were the troops' officers dead? And what kind of troops were they leading? Infantry or dismounted calvary? The death of Semiramis' friend, Jim, at the hands of the former Main overseer (Salem Jones) and Cuffey's bitter departure from Mont Royal proved to be mildly interesting, thanks to the excellent acting by Erica Gimbel and especially, Forest Whittaker. However, I did Brett and Madeline's presence the funeral a touch self-righteous. But that is merely a private opinion. The second half of the episode was a big improvement. Most of the slaves left Mont Royal and I did not blame them one bit. Orry's reaction to their departure was interesting, considering how "BOOK I" had established his slight aversion to slavery. More importantly, his character came off as increasingly conservative, considering that in the novel, his view on slavery become slightly more radical. That little moment between Patrick Swayze and Jean Simmons was lovely and touching. I have mixed feelings about Billy's decision to go AWOL in order to see Brett in South Carolina. Frankly, I found it disturbing. I do not blame him for missing Brett. If the writers had not written Episode 2 the way they did, she would have remained in the North and he would not have went AWOL. Ashton's appearance at Mont Royal really stirred things a bit. It was very enjoyable segment in the episode. I found hers and Bent's revenge against Orry by using Madeline's family secret, a bit anti-climatic. Frankly, I thought they could have used something more dramatic . . . like expose Madeline's secret to neighbors. However, their act of revenge did result in a marvelous scene well acted by Terri Garber and Lesley Anne Down. Semiramis' rant against Ashton was nice touch, if a bit fruitless. But it was Brett's confrontation with Ashton that really did justice to this episode. Kudos to Garber and especially Genie Francis. Veteran stars James Stewart and Olivia DeHavilland appeared near the end of this episode. Did anyone know that those two once dated in the late 1930s? Anyway, Stewart's appearance as Madeline's attorney was charming. However, DeHavilland' s appearance in the episode showed more promise. I could not decide on what was more irritating - Virgilia's arrogant disregard for her supervisor or Mrs. Neal's patronizing concern for Southern patients. And both DeHavilland and Kirstie Alley did a great job. Despite a few quibbles and a dull first half hour, Episode 3 was an improvement over Episode 2. Episode 4: What can I say about Episode 4? It was pretty strong. At least the first half. I found the second half a little dull, aside from two scenes – one poignant and one creepy. The episode started out with a strong sequence that featured George's capture by Mosby's Rangers. This first half hour also featured the beginning of Charles' affair with Augusta Barclay and the Battle of the Wilderness. I have one minor and one major quibble. I wish that Charles and Augusta's affair had begun a lot sooner than three years after they first met. It will prove to be a major problem in Episode 6. My major quibble had to do with Billy's return to his regiment, after being AWOL for nearly ten months (he had left after the Gettysburg battle in July 1863 and returned to his regiment in early May 1864). And what happened? He was lectured by Colonel Berdan and passed over for a promotion to captain (were there any captains in Berdan's Sharpshooters. What on earth were the writers thinking? Billy should have been faced a court-martial for being absent without leave for ten months. Whoever had written this episode must have been completely ignorant of military protocol. If found guilty, Billy would have faced a prison sentence or a dishonorable discharge. An enlisted man would have possibly been shot. Berdan's excuse for his leniency toward Billy? He needed all available men. Hogwash! This was the Spring of 1864, when the Union Army's ranks were filled even more for the remaining year or so of the war. No other TV show, novel, play or etc., would have featured such a major writing gaffe. Then again, you never know. On the other hand, I was very impressed by the Battle of the Wilderness sequence. Director Kevin Connor used a newsreel style that gave it a stark and realistic look. I also enjoyed General Grant's response to his staff's fears over Robert E. Lee. Good acting by Anthony Zerbe, by the way. Another positive aspect of Episode 4 turned out to be Ashton and James Huntoon's marriage woes. Terri Garber and Jim Metzler did an excellent job of conveying how Ashton's infidelity, Huntoon's political failures and the war but a toll on a marriage that had been loveless from the start. I found Madeline's efforts to help war refugees in Charleston noble . . . and dull as hell. The sequence introduced a young former slave named Michael and his mother, who came from Tennessee. I really had a problem with this. Why would slaves head deep into Confederate territory, when they could have easily ended up in Union held cities like Memphis and Vicksburg? However, this sequence featured a young Bumper Robinson as Michael, who managed to act circles around Lesley Anne Down (as if that were possible). And it introduced the delicious Lee Horsley as a disgraced army officer-turned- wastrel. He and Down managed to create a sparkling screen chemistry. I did not find other parts of Episode 4 particularly interesting - except for George's capture and incarceration inside Libby Prison. I never thought I would say this, but Wayne Newton made a damn fine villain. He nearly put Philip Casnoff, David Carradine and Terri Garber to shame. His performance certainly gave the Libby Prison sequence a creep factor that I found very effective. And there was the matter of Virgilia's continuing feud with Mrs.Neal. I found both ladies unsympathetic, until Mrs. Neal decided to harass Virgilia, while the other was having trouble staying awake after long hours of work. I found that a tad bitchy. And both DeHavilland and Alley continue to shine in their scenes together. Other than that, Episode 4 was a mixed bag. It was not one of my favorites and it had two very questionable storylines, but was certainly not a disappointment either. Episode 5: This is hard . . . well, perhaps it is not as hard as I thought. Next to Episode 2, Episode 5 is my least favorite episode in the entire "NORTH AND SOUTH" Trilogy. Aside from a few interesting moments, I found it incredibly slow. The good moments featured Orry and Charles' rescue of George from Libby Prison. Following a vague reunion with his old friend, George is reunited with his wife Constance and the rest of his family on Christmas Day. Which was a nice. And George's discovery of his older brother Stanley and sister-in-law Isabel's illegal connection to Axol Iron turned out to be an excellent dramatic moment. I was especially impressed by James Read and Jonathan Frakes' performances. The only other moments I found interesting were Virgilia's travails with the hostile Mrs. Neal; her sad willingness to sell herself to Congressman Greene for protection from prosecution and the death Rafe Beaudine, of whom I became a bigger fan. I also have to commend Patrick Swayze for his excellent performance at the end of the episode. In this scene, he did a beautiful job of expressing Orry's rage over Ashton and Bent's plot against Madeline. Other than that, I do not have much to recommend about Episode 5. It featured Charles and Augusta's last days together. I will say more about this for Episode 6. All I can say that there was something terribly wrong with this scene. Brett and Semiramis' travails with Salem Jones bored me senseless . . . along with Madeline's continuing efforts to feed all of Charleston's poor. Only Rafe Beaudine's death made this particular sequence interesting. Ashton, Bent and Huntoon bored me senseless and I was glad to see them gone by the end of the episode. Episode 5 was generally a depressing and boring episode. Time to move on. Episode 6: This particular episode could have been considered my favorite of "BOOK II", if it were not for a few matters. My problems with Episode 6? First of all, two months after he last saw Augusta Barclay in Episode 5, Charles discovered that he was the father of an infant boy. Apparently Augusta had died in childbirth. However . . . Augusta definitely DID NOT look pregnant during her last meeting with Charles. And considering that they had made love, her pregnancy should not have come as a surprise to him. Even worse, young Augustus Charles Main looked as if he had been conceived nearly two years ago. Honestly. The kid looked at least one year old. And Charles and Augusta had started their affair eleven months earlier. One last problem I had with this episode was Patrick Swayze's performance as he expressed his grief over the death of his mother, Clarissa Main. All I can say is . . . OVER-THE-TOP Fortunately, there is more for me to praise about Episode 6. One of the miniseries' strengths has always been its battle scenes. And this particular episode featured an exciting interpretation of the Battle at Petersburg. Also included in this episode is the recreation of the Surrender at Appomattox, made poignant by Anthony Zerbe and William Schallert's performances as Generals Grant and Lee. Both James Read and Kirstie Alley once again displayed their acting skills in a tearful scene that featured George and Virgilia's reconciliation before her execution for the murder of Sam Greene. Last, but not least was Salem Jones and Cuffey's action-packed assault on Mont Royal near the end of the episode. Conclusion: Do not get me wrong. There is a lot to admire about "NORTH AND SOUTH: BOOK II". Like its predecessor, "NORTH AND SOUTH", it has its share of good acting, exciting sequences, drama, superb production values, and probably the best costume design in the entire trilogy thanks to Robert Fletcher's work. Unfortunately, the miniseries has its share of flaws, which includes clunky dialogue and probably some of the worst writing in the entire trilogy. Writing that featured a great deal of plot hole and historical inaccuracies. Still . . . I love it anyway.

From: rosiepowell2000 <rosiepowell2000@...>
Subject: [northandsouth] LOOK BACK - "North and South: Book II" (1986)
To: northandsouth@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, April 21, 2009, 11:43 AM

Look Back – "NORTH AND SOUTH: BOOK II" (1986)

Judging from past articles I have written about the "NORTH AND SOUTH" Trilogy, one would surmise that of the three miniseries that have aired in the past decades (two in the 1980s and one in the 1990s) that I seemed to have the most problem with the second miniseries in the trilogy, namely "BOOK II". And if I have to be honest, one would be right.

It is odd that I would choose the second miniseries as the most problematic of the three. "BOOK II" is set during the years of the Civil War – a historical conflict that has heavily attracted my attention for so many years that I cannot measure how long. "BOOK III", which aired at least eight years after the second miniseries, was set during the early years of Reconstruction and has a reputation amongst the "NORTH AND SOUTH" fans as being inferior to the other two. But for some reason, I have had more of a problem with "BOOK II". So I have decided to examine each of the six episodes of the 1986 miniseries to determine why this chapter in the "NORTH AND SOUTH" trilogy is such a problem for me.

Episode 1:

Without a doubt, Episode 1 of "BOOK II" is my favorite in the entire miniseries. It re-introduced the main characters in the story. It also set the stage for the main characters' experiences during the war, for the rest of the story. It featured an excellent opening shot on the streets of Washington D.C. that introduced both Brett Main Hazard, and the slave Semiramis. It also featured a well shot sequence that centered around a colorful ball at the Spotswood Hotel (in Richmond) attended by Ashton and James Huntoon. Most importantly, it featured one of my favorite battle scenes – namely the Battle of Bull Run that was fought near Manassas, Virginia on July 18, 1861. If I have to be frank, this interpretation of Bull Run remains my favorite. Director Kevin Connors filmed the entire sequence with great style and skill and composer Bill Conti injected it with a brash, yet haunting score that still give me goose bumps whenever I watch it. Even better, the sequence ended with actress Wendy Kilbourne uttering one of the best lines in the entire trilogy.

I do have a few quibbles about "BOOK I". First of all, it introduced Charles Main's role as a cavalry scout for the Confederate Army. Considering that he started out as a Captain in this miniseries, it made no sense to me that he and another officer (a first lieutenant) would be participating in scout duties that usually fell to enlisted men. I guess one could call it as an example of the story being historically inaccurate.

My last quibble featured the character of Elkhannah Bent. What was he doing with the portrait of Madeline Fabray LaMotte's mother? The audience knew that he had procured it from an expensive whorehouse in New Orleans. But Bent had no idea that Madeline was romantically involved with one of his nemesis, Orry Main, until after Ashton Main Huntoon informed him. So, why did he bother to get his hands on the painting at a time when he was ignorant of the romantic and emotional connection between Orry and Madeline?

Episode 2:

The first third of this episode featured the aftermath of Bull Run, Brett Main Hazard and Semiramis' trip to South Carolina, Orry Main's wedding to his widowed neighbor Madeline LaMotte, and Elkhannah Bent and Ashton Main Huntoon's smuggling operations. I wish I could be objective about this particular episode, but I cannot. I dislike it too much. It is one of the mainreasons why I have so much difficulty with Book II in the first place.

My main beef with this episode's story centered around the plotline that featured Brett and Semiramis' journey south to Mont Royal, following the Bull Run battle. First of all, I believe that this particular plotline was badly written. Brett and Semiramis should not have had any difficulties getting past Union lines, since nearly the entire Union Army had fled to Washington in disarray, following the battle. Second, once they had reached Richmond and delivered the message about Clarissa, they could have accompanied Orry back to South Carolina. They would have arrived at Mont Royal in late July or early August 1861, instead of November 1861. And why did it take them so long to reach South Carolina in the first place? Surely, the two could have traveled by train. The Union Army had not begun destroying Southern railroad tracks during the summer of 1861. And one last question – why on earth was a message sent to Brett in Washington D.C. in the first place? An accommodating neighbor of the Mains or a local doctor could have sent the message about Clarissa to Orry in Richmond. It would have been a lot easier. And quicker. Talk about bad writing!

However, there were some good moments in this episode. George and Orry had a bittersweet reunion inside a barn, while both were traveling to their respective capitals. Charles visited the widowed Augusta Barclay's farm after being injured by Union cavalry. And in one brief scene, Congressman Greene had an embarrassed reaction to a wounded soldier that did David Odgen Stiers' skills proud as an actor. Unfortunately, these well done moments could not save an otherwise dull episode.

Episode 3:

I have mixed feelings about this particular episode. Fortunately, most of my feelings are positive. Aside from the Antietam battle that included Billy Hazard and Charles Main's brief and dramatic reunion, I found the first half hour of Episode 3 to be rather dull and interesting. I do have a small quibble about the Antietam battle. How did Charles and Ambrose go from being calvary scouts to leading men on the field? Were the troops' officers dead? And what kind of troops were they leading? Infantry or dismounted calvary? The death of Semiramis' friend, Jim, at the hands of the former Main overseer (Salem Jones) and Cuffey's bitter departure from Mont Royal proved to be mildly interesting, thanks to the excellent acting by Erica Gimbel and especially, Forest Whittaker. However, I did Brett and Madeline's presence the funeral a touch self-righteous. But that is merely a private opinion.

The second half of the episode was a big improvement. Most of the slaves left Mont Royal and I did not blame them one bit. Orry's reaction to their departure was interesting, considering how "BOOK I" had established his slight aversion to slavery. More importantly, his character came off as increasingly conservative, considering that in the novel, his view on slavery become slightly more radical. That little moment between Patrick Swayze and Jean Simmons was lovely and touching. I have mixed feelings about Billy's decision to go AWOL in order to see Brett in South Carolina. Frankly, I found it disturbing. I do not blame him for missing Brett. If the writers had not written Episode 2 the way they did, she would have remained in the North and he would not have went AWOL.

Ashton's appearance at Mont Royal really stirred things a bit. It was very enjoyable segment in the episode. I found hers and Bent's revenge against Orry by using Madeline's family secret, a bit anti-climatic. Frankly, I thought they could have used something more dramatic . . . like expose Madeline's secret to neighbors. However, their act of revenge did result in a marvelous scene well acted by Terri Garber and Lesley Anne Down. Semiramis' rant against Ashton was nice touch, if a bit fruitless. But it was Brett's confrontation with Ashton that really did justice to this episode. Kudos to Garber and especially Genie Francis.

Veteran stars James Stewart and Olivia DeHavilland appeared near the end of this episode. Did anyone know that those two once dated in the late 1930s? Anyway, Stewart's appearance as Madeline's attorney was charming. However, DeHavilland' s appearance in the episode showed more promise. I could not decide on what was more irritating - Virgilia's arrogant disregard for her supervisor or Mrs. Neal's patronizing concern for Southern patients. And both DeHavilland and Kirstie Alley did a great job. Despite a few quibbles and a dull first half hour, Episode 3 was an improvement over Episode 2.

Episode 4:

What can I say about Episode 4? It was pretty strong. At least the first half. I found the second half a little dull, aside from two scenes – one poignant and one creepy.

The episode started out with a strong sequence that featured George's capture by Mosby's Rangers. This first half hour also featured the beginning of Charles' affair with Augusta Barclay and the Battle of the Wilderness. I have one minor and one major quibble. I wish that Charles and Augusta's affair had begun a lot sooner than three years after they first met. It will prove to be a major problem in Episode 6. My major quibble had to do with Billy's return to his regiment, after being AWOL for nearly ten months (he had left after the Gettysburg battle in July 1863 and returned to his regiment in early May 1864). And what happened? He was lectured by Colonel Berdan and passed over for a promotion to captain (were there any captains in Berdan's Sharpshooters. What on earth were the writers thinking? Billy should have been faced a court-martial for being absent without leave for ten months. Whoever had written this episode must have been completely ignorant of military protocol. If found guilty, Billy would have faced a prison sentence or a dishonorable discharge. An enlisted man would have possibly been shot. Berdan's excuse for his leniency toward Billy? He needed all available men. Hogwash! This was the Spring of 1864, when the Union Army's ranks were filled even more for the remaining year or so of the war. No other TV show, novel, play or etc., would have featured such a major writing gaffe. Then again, you never know.

On the other hand, I was very impressed by the Battle of the Wilderness sequence. Director Kevin Connor used a newsreel style that gave it a stark and realistic look. I also enjoyed General Grant's response to his staff's fears over Robert E. Lee. Good acting by Anthony Zerbe, by the way. Another positive aspect of Episode 4 turned out to be Ashton and James Huntoon's marriage woes. Terri Garber and Jim Metzler did an excellent job of conveying how Ashton's infidelity, Huntoon's political failures and the war but a toll on a marriage that had been loveless from the start. I found Madeline's efforts to help war refugees in Charleston noble . . . and dull as hell. The sequence introduced a young former slave named Michael and his mother, who came from Tennessee. I really had a problem with this. Why would slaves head deep into Confederate territory, when they could have easily ended up in Union held cities like Memphis and Vicksburg? However, this sequence featured a young Bumper Robinson as Michael, who managed to act circles around Lesley Anne Down (as if that were possible). And it introduced the delicious Lee Horsley as a disgraced army officer-turned- wastrel. He and Down managed to create a sparkling screen chemistry.

I did not find other parts of Episode 4 particularly interesting - except for George's capture and incarceration inside Libby Prison. I never thought I would say this, but Wayne Newton made a damn fine villain. He nearly put Philip Casnoff, David Carradine and Terri Garber to shame. His performance certainly gave the Libby Prison sequence a creep factor that I found very effective. And there was the matter of Virgilia's continuing feud with Mrs.Neal. I found both ladies unsympathetic, until Mrs. Neal decided to harass Virgilia, while the other was having trouble staying awake after long hours of work. I found that a tad bitchy. And both DeHavilland and Alley continue to shine in their scenes together.

Other than that, Episode 4 was a mixed bag. It was not one of my favorites and it had two very questionable storylines, but was certainly not a disappointment either.

Episode 5:

This is hard . . . well, perhaps it is not as hard as I thought. Next to Episode 2, Episode 5 is my least favorite episode in the entire "NORTH AND SOUTH" Trilogy. Aside from a few interesting moments, I found it incredibly slow.

The good moments featured Orry and Charles' rescue of George from Libby Prison. Following a vague reunion with his old friend, George is reunited with his wife Constance and the rest of his family on Christmas Day. Which was a nice. And George's discovery of his older brother Stanley and sister-in-law Isabel's illegal connection to Axol Iron turned out to be an excellent dramatic moment. I was especially impressed by James Read and Jonathan Frakes' performances. The only other moments I found interesting were Virgilia's travails with the hostile Mrs. Neal; her sad willingness to sell herself to Congressman Greene for protection from prosecution and the death Rafe Beaudine, of whom I became a bigger fan. I also have to commend Patrick Swayze for his excellent performance at the end of the episode. In this scene, he did a beautiful job of expressing Orry's rage over Ashton and Bent's plot against Madeline.

Other than that, I do not have much to recommend about Episode 5. It featured Charles and Augusta's last days together. I will say more about this for Episode 6. All I can say that there was something terribly wrong with this scene. Brett and Semiramis' travails with Salem Jones bored me senseless . . . along with Madeline's continuing efforts to feed all of Charleston's poor. Only Rafe Beaudine's death made this particular sequence interesting. Ashton, Bent and Huntoon bored me senseless and I was glad to see them gone by the end of the episode. Episode 5 was generally a depressing and boring episode. Time to move on.

Episode 6:

This particular episode could have been considered my favorite of "BOOK II", if it were not for a few matters. My problems with Episode 6? First of all, two months after he last saw Augusta Barclay in Episode 5, Charles discovered that he was the father of an infant boy. Apparently Augusta had died in childbirth. However . . . Augusta definitely DID NOT look pregnant during her last meeting with Charles. And considering that they had made love, her pregnancy should not have come as a surprise to him. Even worse, young Augustus Charles Main looked as if he had been conceived nearly two years ago. Honestly. The kid looked at least one year old. And Charles and Augusta had started their affair eleven months earlier. One last problem I had with this episode was Patrick Swayze's performance as he expressed his grief over the death of his mother, Clarissa Main. All I can say is . . . OVER-THE-TOP

Fortunately, there is more for me to praise about Episode 6. One of the miniseries' strengths has always been its battle scenes. And this particular episode featured an exciting interpretation of the Battle at Petersburg. Also included in this episode is the recreation of the Surrender at Appomattox, made poignant by Anthony Zerbe and William Schallert's performances as Generals Grant and Lee. Both James Read and Kirstie Alley once again displayed their acting skills in a tearful scene that featured George and Virgilia's reconciliation before her execution for the murder of Sam Greene. Last, but not least was Salem Jones and Cuffey's action-packed assault on Mont Royal near the end of the episode.

Conclusion:

Do not get me wrong. There is a lot to admire about "NORTH AND SOUTH: BOOK II". Like its predecessor, "NORTH AND SOUTH", it has its share of good acting, exciting sequences, drama, superb production values, and probably the best costume design in the entire trilogy thanks to Robert Fletcher's work. Unfortunately, the miniseries has its share of flaws, which includes clunky dialogue and probably some of the worst writing in the entire trilogy. Writing that featured a great deal of plot hole and historical inaccuracies. Still . . . I love it anyway.

From: felaries65 <felaries65@...>
Subject: [northandsouth] Re: Conflicting Views on the “NORTH AND SOUTH� Trilogy
To: northandsouth@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, March 16, 2009, 5:15 PM

For me, NORTH AND SOUTH and GONE WITH THE WIND have a few things in common:

1)Both are set in the periods between the antebellum period (for GWTW - that was at least a few days before the war started) and the post-Civil War era;

2) The South plays a major role in both stories

3) Both are long sagas

But whereas GONE WITH THE WIND seemed to have a more conservative view on slavery and politics during the Civil War, the NORTH AND SOUTH trilogy doesn't. It is ten times more critical of slavery than GWTW and it is shown via the viewpoints of not only just white Southerners, but both North and South - black and white . . . and Native American in the third story.

And yet . . . many NORTH AND SOUTH fans tend to view the trilogy as if it was an exact replica of GWTW. Including the political and social viewpoints. There were fans claiming that Semiramis and Ezra were automatically loyal to the Mains, completely forgetting that the Mains (with the exception of Charles) had nothing to do with their decision to remain at Mont Royal. And I keep running into the occasional post that defends slavery.

I find it odd that a group of fans that mainly seemed to be conservative in its outlook, would be such big fans of a story that has a strong liberal tone.

--- In northandsouth@ yahoogroups. com, Ginny Butterfield <butter@...> wrote:
>
> Well, as a rule I am conservative, and I do place North and South as a
> great epic in the same "greatness"as Gone with the Wind. I see it more
> as an epic on how the Civil War tore apart families and friendships,
> with an historical backdrop.
>
> I also think is shows the extremes of views on both sides as well as the
> horrors of slavery, which is in unfortunate part of American history.
>
> I do not see it as "ode to the old South", but rather an epic of an
> American Tragedy: slavery, civil war, brother against brother, friend
> against friend. And I see it as a triumph of family and friend...
> however am not sure Book III fits in... I am not a fan of the third series!
>
> And you are right about Semi and Ezra... Semi satyed because of Charles
> and Ezra stayed for Semi.... again friends and family!
>
> Anyway, thanks for your analysis! Most interesting! !!!
>
> Ginny
>
>
>
>
>
> felaries65 wrote:
> > I have been a fan of John Jakes' "NORTH AND SOUTH" trilogy, ever since I read the first novel - "North and South" when I was in my twenties. After reading both the first and the second novel - "Love and War", I became a fan of the miniseries, upon which the miniseries are based. Because of my love of Jakes' saga, I began perusing many websites created by fans of the saga and joined a few Yahoo discussion groups. And what I had discovered about the saga's fandom has left me feeling not only shocked, but wondering if these fans had any idea what Jakes was trying to convey in his story.
> >
> > Reading some of the "NORTH AND SOUTH" websites and the Yahoo groups has led me to wonder if the majority of this particular fandom tend to place the saga into the same category as "THE BIRTH OF A NATION" or "GONE WITH THE WIND". In other words, many of these fans tend to view Jakes' saga with a conservative eye. Either they seemed mistaken by Jakes' (and producer David Wolper's) theme behind the saga . . . or they may have decided to ignore it. I suspect the latter.
> >
> > Now, some might be wondering why I had even bothered to write this article. Frankly, so am I. I doubt that this article will ever change these fans' perspective on the "NORTH AND SOUTH" trilogy. So why do I bother? To be honest, this article is not about changing their perspective. It is about me expressing my frustration over the fact that I cannot find one fan of the saga who does NOT view it along the same lines as Margaret Mitchell's famous novel (and David Selznick's famous screen adaptation). I have yet to encounter a "NORTH AND SOUTH" fan who does not view the story as some kind of ode to the Old South. Judging from Jakes' three novels and Wolper's miniseries adaptations, I certainly do not view it as such.
> >
> > This conservative attitude has never been more apparent than in my clash with other fans over the role of the slaves owned by the family of one of the saga's main characters – Orry Main. Aside from the character of Cuffey (portrayed by Oscar winner, Forest Whitaker), these fans try to view the slaves in a sympathetic light by labeling them as loyal to the Main family. This is especially true of the two characters – Semiramis (Erica Gimpel) and Ezra (Beau Billingslea) . While perusing a "NORTH AND SOUTH" website created by a European-born fan (the site has since disappeared ), I noticed that he had described both characters as "loyal", due to their decision to remain at Mont Royal (the Mains' South Carolina plantation) after the other slaves had left in the second miniseries, set during the Civil War. What many fans failed to realize that Semiramis or Ezra had not remained at Mont Royal due to any loyalty to the Main family.
> >
> > "NORTH AND SOUTH: Book 2" had started with a recently married Brett Main Hazard (Genie Francis) in Washington D.C. at the beginning of the war, and Semiramis acting as her personal servant. Hours before the Battle of Bull Run commenced, Brett received a message from South Carolina that her mother, Clarissa Main (Jean Simmons) had been injured in a barn fire. Brett made the sudden decision to make her way through battle lines in order to return back into Confederate territory and South Carolina. Semiramis accompanied her. The pair eventually reached Mont Royal in the middle of Episode 2. In the following episode, both Cuffey and Ezra separately questioned Semiramis' decision to remain with Brett. Although the maid refused to acknowledge Cuffey's question, she gave Ezra a vague answer about wanting to stick by Brett's side. However, both men seemed to know the true answer. Charles Main. Semiramis had fallen in love with Orry Main's younger cousin in the previous miniseries, "Book 1". And both men seemed appalled that she would harbor such feelings for a man who was related to their owner. But whereas Cuffey left Mont Royal (stealing Clarissa Main's jewels along the way), Ezra remained behind, considering her treatment at the hands of the Mains' former overseer, Salem Jones (Tony Frank). Even when the Main women – Clarissa, Madeline (Lesley Ann Down) and Brett – had permitted the other slaves to leave. And what was Ezra's reason for remaining at Mont Royal? He wanted a chance to woo and win Semiramis' heart. And Semiramis' reason for remaining behind? She wanted a chance to see Charles Main again . . . on the chance he might return to the family's plantation. Any loyalty toward the Main family had nothing to do with either slave's decision to remain. However, many "NORTH AND SOUTH" fans refused to acknowledge this. They simply wanted to believe that the two slaves had remained at Mont Royal, due to some kind of loyalty to the Main family. They especially seemed enamored of the idea of Semiramis remaining loyal to Brett. Judging from their remarks, the idea of a loyal servant . . . especially a black slave . . . seemed very appealing to them.
> >
> > Another aspect about many of these fans of the trilogy seemed to be their belief that the Mains' slaves should have been satisfied with their lot as the family's servants and property . . . as long as they were well treated. In one of the Yahoo groups, one particular fan questioned this belief, expressing doubt that a slave would automatically love his or her master because of well treatment, pointing out that the master (or even mistress) was still robbing that slave of any kind of freedom. And another member responded in the following fashion:
> >
> > "JESUS! BECAUSE THE SLAVE KNEW NO OTHER REALITY! THEY WERE SLAVES!
> > HOW WERE THEY SUPPOSED TO KNOW ANOTHER LIFE! AFTER A WHILE, IT HAS
> > TO AFFECT ONE'S SELF-BELIEF! "
> >
> > Whoever had posted this response was obviously ignorant of his or her American history. If Southern slaves were unaware of the idea of freedom, why did so many of them escaped or attempted to escape from bondage? And that included famous fugitives such as Harriet Tubman, Frederick Douglass, William and Ellen Craft, Henry Box Brown, Robert Smalls, Thomas Sims and Anthony Burns. Even the "NORTH AND SOUTH" trilogy featured two fugitive slaves – Semiramis' older brother Priam (David Harris), and Grady (Georg Sanford Brown) – James Huntoon's slave and Virgilia Hazard's husband. Although both former slaves had encountered a great deal of bigotry and hardship in the North, neither of them had any inclination to return to their masters and slavery. Instead, both participated in John Brown's failed raid on the U.S. Arsenal at Harper's Ferry, Virginia. Another one of the Mains' slave – an elderly gentleman named Joseph (Harry Caesar) – seemed to be on friendly terms with Clarissa Main. He even seemed concerned for her well-being. Despite the lack of hostility between slave and mistress, Joseph did not hesitate to leave Mont Royal during the summer of 1863, when given the opportunity. Despite the Mains' decent treatment of their slaves, one of them – a man named Caleb – reminded Orry that Mont Royal had never been their home.
> >
> > If there is one character in the "NORTH AND SOUTH" trilogy that personified some of these fans' more conservative view of the saga, it is abolitionist Virgilia Hazard. Virgilia was not the only abolitionist in the story. Her older brother, George and his wife, Constance (James Read and Wendy Kilbourne) were also abolitionists. And Charles Main seemed to have a more liberal view of African-Americans than the others in his family. Judging from his comments to Semiramis, he never seemed to have a high or matter-of-fact opinion of slavery. But Virgilia, portrayed by the wonderful Kirstie Alley, managed to take her views against slavery to great heights. One might as well describe her as a fanatic. She had no tolerance toward all Southerners – especially slave owners. And she was very passionate in her views toward abolition and women's rights. Many fans hate her . . . even to this day.
> >
> > One can understand an initial dislike of Virgilia. She was bigoted toward all Southerners and harbored a fanatical view of her political and social beliefs. On the other hand, it is easy to admire her more liberal view toward African-Americans – especially in the mid 19th century – and abolition. This tolerance led her to fall in love and marry Grady. In "Book I", George had accused her of marrying the fugitive slave for political reasons. But Constance insisted that she had loved him. Virgilia's reaction to his death seemed to support Constance's views. And unlike other unpopular characters like Ashton Main (Terri Garber), James Huntoon (Jim Metzler), Isabel Truscott Hazard (Wendy Fulton, Mary Crosby and Deborah Rush), Harry Venable (Keith Szarabajka) and Elkhanah Bent (Philip Casnoff); Virgilia was able to face and acknowledge her flaws before her death by a hangman's noose in Episode 6 of "Book II". Not only did her opinions of Southerners ease – personified by her sympathy toward a wounded Confederate officer - she also managed to make her peace with both George (whom she had accused of being a sympathizer toward Southern slave owners) and more importantly, Orry. But many fans have refused to acknowledge this character development in Virgilia. And they continue to blind themselves from her virtues. Because of this, I cannot help but wonder if their dislike of Virgilia had more to do with her liberal views than her personal flaws.
> >
> > I find it ironic that the only fans of the "NORTH AND SOUTH" trilogy I have come across, seemed to view the saga with a conservative bent. This is especially ironic, considering that John Jakes take on history in the antebellum United States seemed to be a lot more liberal – especially in his criticism of our country's slave system. Even producer David Wolper managed to capture this view of Jakes' saga in his three miniseries that aired between 1985 and 1994. Yet, I rarely come across any fan who seemed to view the trilogy in the same manner – especially in regard to their views on the Mains' slaves and criticism of the Virgilia Hazard character. It almost seemed as if they would prefer to place Jakes' trilogy in the same political category as Margaret Mitchell's saga, "Gone With the Wind". And I do not know whether to find this sad . . . or ironic.
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------ --------- --------- ------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
>
> Ginny Butterfield
> Cranberry Twp, PA
>

From: felaries65 <felaries65@...>
Subject: [northandsouth] Conflicting Views on the “NORTH AND SOUTH� Trilogy
To: northandsouth@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, March 13, 2009, 6:03 PM

I have been a fan of John Jakes' "NORTH AND SOUTH" trilogy, ever since I read the first novel - "North and South" when I was in my twenties. After reading both the first and the second novel - "Love and War", I became a fan of the miniseries, upon which the miniseries are based. Because of my love of Jakes' saga, I began perusing many websites created by fans of the saga and joined a few Yahoo discussion groups. And what I had discovered about the saga's fandom has left me feeling not only shocked, but wondering if these fans had any idea what Jakes was trying to convey in his story.

Reading some of the "NORTH AND SOUTH" websites and the Yahoo groups has led me to wonder if the majority of this particular fandom tend to place the saga into the same category as "THE BIRTH OF A NATION" or "GONE WITH THE WIND". In other words, many of these fans tend to view Jakes' saga with a conservative eye. Either they seemed mistaken by Jakes' (and producer David Wolper's) theme behind the saga . . . or they may have decided to ignore it. I suspect the latter.

Now, some might be wondering why I had even bothered to write this article. Frankly, so am I. I doubt that this article will ever change these fans' perspective on the "NORTH AND SOUTH" trilogy. So why do I bother? To be honest, this article is not about changing their perspective. It is about me expressing my frustration over the fact that I cannot find one fan of the saga who does NOT view it along the same lines as Margaret Mitchell's famous novel (and David Selznick's famous screen adaptation). I have yet to encounter a "NORTH AND SOUTH" fan who does not view the story as some kind of ode to the Old South. Judging from Jakes' three novels and Wolper's miniseries adaptations, I certainly do not view it as such.

This conservative attitude has never been more apparent than in my clash with other fans over the role of the slaves owned by the family of one of the saga's main characters – Orry Main. Aside from the character of Cuffey (portrayed by Oscar winner, Forest Whitaker), these fans try to view the slaves in a sympathetic light by labeling them as loyal to the Main family. This is especially true of the two characters – Semiramis (Erica Gimpel) and Ezra (Beau Billingslea) . While perusing a "NORTH AND SOUTH" website created by a European-born fan (the site has since disappeared ), I noticed that he had described both characters as "loyal", due to their decision to remain at Mont Royal (the Mains' South Carolina plantation) after the other slaves had left in the second miniseries, set during the Civil War. What many fans failed to realize that Semiramis or Ezra had not remained at Mont Royal due to any loyalty to the Main family.

"NORTH AND SOUTH: Book 2" had started with a recently married Brett Main Hazard (Genie Francis) in Washington D.C. at the beginning of the war, and Semiramis acting as her personal servant. Hours before the Battle of Bull Run commenced, Brett received a message from South Carolina that her mother, Clarissa Main (Jean Simmons) had been injured in a barn fire. Brett made the sudden decision to make her way through battle lines in order to return back into Confederate territory and South Carolina. Semiramis accompanied her. The pair eventually reached Mont Royal in the middle of Episode 2. In the following episode, both Cuffey and Ezra separately questioned Semiramis' decision to remain with Brett. Although the maid refused to acknowledge Cuffey's question, she gave Ezra a vague answer about wanting to stick by Brett's side. However, both men seemed to know the true answer. Charles Main. Semiramis had fallen in love with Orry Main's younger cousin in the previous miniseries, "Book 1". And both men seemed appalled that she would harbor such feelings for a man who was related to their owner. But whereas Cuffey left Mont Royal (stealing Clarissa Main's jewels along the way), Ezra remained behind, considering her treatment at the hands of the Mains' former overseer, Salem Jones (Tony Frank). Even when the Main women – Clarissa, Madeline (Lesley Ann Down) and Brett – had permitted the other slaves to leave. And what was Ezra's reason for remaining at Mont Royal? He wanted a chance to woo and win Semiramis' heart. And Semiramis' reason for remaining behind? She wanted a chance to see Charles Main again . . . on the chance he might return to the family's plantation. Any loyalty toward the Main family had nothing to do with either slave's decision to remain. However, many "NORTH AND SOUTH" fans refused to acknowledge this. They simply wanted to believe that the two slaves had remained at Mont Royal, due to some kind of loyalty to the Main family. They especially seemed enamored of the idea of Semiramis remaining loyal to Brett. Judging from their remarks, the idea of a loyal servant . . . especially a black slave . . . seemed very appealing to them.

Another aspect about many of these fans of the trilogy seemed to be their belief that the Mains' slaves should have been satisfied with their lot as the family's servants and property . . . as long as they were well treated. In one of the Yahoo groups, one particular fan questioned this belief, expressing doubt that a slave would automatically love his or her master because of well treatment, pointing out that the master (or even mistress) was still robbing that slave of any kind of freedom. And another member responded in the following fashion:

"JESUS! BECAUSE THE SLAVE KNEW NO OTHER REALITY! THEY WERE SLAVES!
HOW WERE THEY SUPPOSED TO KNOW ANOTHER LIFE! AFTER A WHILE, IT HAS
TO AFFECT ONE'S SELF-BELIEF! "

Whoever had posted this response was obviously ignorant of his or her American history. If Southern slaves were unaware of the idea of freedom, why did so many of them escaped or attempted to escape from bondage? And that included famous fugitives such as Harriet Tubman, Frederick Douglass, William and Ellen Craft, Henry Box Brown, Robert Smalls, Thomas Sims and Anthony Burns. Even the "NORTH AND SOUTH" trilogy featured two fugitive slaves – Semiramis' older brother Priam (David Harris), and Grady (Georg Sanford Brown) – James Huntoon's slave and Virgilia Hazard's husband. Although both former slaves had encountered a great deal of bigotry and hardship in the North, neither of them had any inclination to return to their masters and slavery. Instead, both participated in John Brown's failed raid on the U.S. Arsenal at Harper's Ferry, Virginia. Another one of the Mains' slave – an elderly gentleman named Joseph (Harry Caesar) – seemed to be on friendly terms with Clarissa Main. He even seemed concerned for her well-being. Despite the lack of hostility between slave and mistress, Joseph did not hesitate to leave Mont Royal during the summer of 1863, when given the opportunity. Despite the Mains' decent treatment of their slaves, one of them – a man named Caleb – reminded Orry that Mont Royal had never been their home.

If there is one character in the "NORTH AND SOUTH" trilogy that personified some of these fans' more conservative view of the saga, it is abolitionist Virgilia Hazard. Virgilia was not the only abolitionist in the story. Her older brother, George and his wife, Constance (James Read and Wendy Kilbourne) were also abolitionists. And Charles Main seemed to have a more liberal view of African-Americans than the others in his family. Judging from his comments to Semiramis, he never seemed to have a high or matter-of-fact opinion of slavery. But Virgilia, portrayed by the wonderful Kirstie Alley, managed to take her views against slavery to great heights. One might as well describe her as a fanatic. She had no tolerance toward all Southerners – especially slave owners. And she was very passionate in her views toward abolition and women's rights. Many fans hate her . . . even to this day.

One can understand an initial dislike of Virgilia. She was bigoted toward all Southerners and harbored a fanatical view of her political and social beliefs. On the other hand, it is easy to admire her more liberal view toward African-Americans – especially in the mid 19th century – and abolition. This tolerance led her to fall in love and marry Grady. In "Book I", George had accused her of marrying the fugitive slave for political reasons. But Constance insisted that she had loved him. Virgilia's reaction to his death seemed to support Constance's views. And unlike other unpopular characters like Ashton Main (Terri Garber), James Huntoon (Jim Metzler), Isabel Truscott Hazard (Wendy Fulton, Mary Crosby and Deborah Rush), Harry Venable (Keith Szarabajka) and Elkhanah Bent (Philip Casnoff); Virgilia was able to face and acknowledge her flaws before her death by a hangman's noose in Episode 6 of "Book II". Not only did her opinions of Southerners ease – personified by her sympathy toward a wounded Confederate officer - she also managed to make her peace with both George (whom she had accused of being a sympathizer toward Southern slave owners) and more importantly, Orry. But many fans have refused to acknowledge this character development in Virgilia. And they continue to blind themselves from her virtues. Because of this, I cannot help but wonder if their dislike of Virgilia had more to do with her liberal views than her personal flaws.

I find it ironic that the only fans of the "NORTH AND SOUTH" trilogy I have come across, seemed to view the saga with a conservative bent. This is especially ironic, considering that John Jakes take on history in the antebellum United States seemed to be a lot more liberal – especially in his criticism of our country's slave system. Even producer David Wolper managed to capture this view of Jakes' saga in his three miniseries that aired between 1985 and 1994. Yet, I rarely come across any fan who seemed to view the trilogy in the same manner – especially in regard to their views on the Mains' slaves and criticism of the Virgilia Hazard character. It almost seemed as if they would prefer to place Jakes' trilogy in the same political category as Margaret Mitchell's saga, "Gone With the Wind". And I do not know whether to find this sad . . . or ironic.

From: Angélique Bakker <liek-1983@...>
Subject: RE: [northandsouth] Patrick
To: "northandsouth" <northandsouth@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Friday, February 6, 2009, 7:18 AM

That'll be an interesting read.
 
Angelique

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To: northandsouth@ yahoogroups. com
From: abrooks1@pacbell. net
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 14:55:21 -0800
Subject: [northandsouth] Patrick

http://www.usatoday .com/life/ books/news/ 2009-02-05- swayze-book_ N.htm -AAB :)

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