sadmad: I'm a little perplexed about an element of this latest
revelation here.

OS: What would that be?

sadmad: You've each asserted your belief that whatever else may have
been fraudulent about the goings-on during the making of JM2, that
one of the few things we saw that we could probably take to the bank
as being real, were David's feelings about or toward Linda.

OS: Yes. That would be accurate.

MM: Within limits, of course.

sadmad: How so?

MM: It appears that the more we delve into those goings-on attendant
to the show, the more we find ourselves confronted with some new
level of chicanery, distortions and manipulations. So it kind of
makes you want to put an asterisk, so to speak, by just about
anything and everything - know what I mean?

sadmad: Yeah, certainly.

OS: But, in a perverse way, that's why this whole investigation of
ours into JM2 has become so absorbing and so endlessly fascinating
for the two of us.

MM: You said it. The Kennedy assassination, the Vietnam War, the
disputed election of 2000, the build-up to the Iraq War - whew!, all
small potatoes compared to the layers of deceit, dishonesty, fraud
and manipulation we've uncovered while looking into this silly piece
of fluff television.

OS: What was your question, then?

sadmad: Do you think the FOX/RSL producers came to Linda and
presented her the 'deal' you cited - flat out - or did they arrive at
it after having to 'negotiate'?

MM: Interesting question.

sadmad: Linda knew how David felt about her, right? So even if she
had found out about what the premise of the show actually was and
what kind of payoff would be in-store for the girl who he ended up
choosing at the end, wouldn't she, then, upon agreeing to come back,
have been reasonably certain that if she just even menially played up
to him a little bit, he would've picked her and she would walk away
with the prize?

OS: Good point.

sadmad: Well?

MM: Good one, sadmad. All we can do, in this case, then,
unfortunately, would be to extrapolate a guess for you.

sadmad: Go ahead.

MM: Bearing those factors in mind, it would seem to point in the
direction that at least one of the parties involved did not want to
leave anything to chance. Or so it would appear.

OS: So a possible scenario would be that Linda prepares to leave
Tuscany and the little world of JM2, fed up with the demands of
having to do this and do that at the whim of the producers, as well
as get back to her boyfriend in Prague and her pal Karolina -

MM: - then the producers have a brainstorm and see a way they could
add a nice plot twist by bringing her back later on.

OS: Only Linda really wants to get away (not from the jealousy of the
other girls, of course) but from them, and, maybe, from feelings of
guilt over David's feelings for her -

MM: - so maybe she gives them a polite 'thanks, but no thanks', and
they, in turn, up the ante.

OS: Like, 'Hey, Linda, here's the deal. If you come back and play
ball with us to the end, then here's what we're prepared to offer'.

MM: At which case, Linda said 'dobra!' (Okay!)

sadmad: Hmmm. So you're intimating that in this case, as in so many
others, everyone has their price?

MM: We hadn't thought about that angle before you introduced it,
sadmad, truth be told. So, again, we're just trying to construct as
likely a scenario as possible, given the context and the information
we have.

sadmad: I guess the best case scenario, as far as Linda is concerned
then, would be that she genuinely wanted to leave, at least in part,
because she she didn't want to lead David on, but was corrupted by
FOX and RSL to do just that.

OS: Who knows? Whatever else you may think of us, we're not total
cynics, you know? There's no hope regarding any of those shameless
FOX/RSL producers, but we're ever hopeful about the motives of the
rest of the world.


(Part VI to follow.)

OS: You know, sadmad, this probably won't be a bombshell to any great
degree, but the more we look into the goings-on of what is
called 'reality television', the more squalid it becomes.

MM: And those miserable, shameless SOB's who call themselves editors
and producers there at Rocket Science Laboratories are the absolute
worst - or most notable or proficient - purveyors of this sordid
business.

sadmad: Rocket Science Laboratories is, of course, the outfit that
produced both JM1 and JM2 for FOX.

MM: Correctamundo.

OS: In that light, are you familiar with a couple by the name of Gary
and Sharon Rosier from around the Chicago area?

sadmad: No. Should I be?

OS: Well, let me explain. It seems that a few years ago the Rosiers
(who have three children, one of whom has been wheelchair-bound) were
approached by some casting directors for a Hollywood reality TV show
called "Renovate My Family".

sadmad: I don't remember a show by that name.

MM: I guess a lot of people don't. It was on for a short while back in
2004.

OS: Apparently the concept of the show was to look for not really well-
to-do families with specific needs who could benefit from a million
dollars or so of improvements to their homes.

MM: The people from the show asked the Rosiers to draft a kind of a
wish list of what they would like. So they asked for three new
bedrooms, a bathroom, a dishwasher and some more closets.

OS: Mrs. Rosier said the producers gave a contract to sign. She said
she wanted to have an attorney look it over, but the producers told her
and her husband they had one hour to sign it, or the renovation plans
would be imperilled.

MM: Well, they went ahead and signed, and four days later a crew showed
up to begin the project. While on camera, the Rosiers were told that
most of their home was going to be torn down.

OS: Gary Rosier, it turns out, is a carpenter, who constructed their
oak cabinets by hand and built a wooden deck in the backyard, along
with having spent years landscaping the area there.

MM: The producers then took the family away for four days while the
renovations were completed.

sadmad: Wait a minute. What kind of large-scale renovations could be
completed in just four days?

MM: Good question. Hang on.

OS: The Rosiers said the producers then had them and their family
rehearse their reaction to how they would react when they first saw
their 'new' house.

OS: Only their emotions weren't quite good enough, it seemed.

sadmad: I don't get you.

OS: The Rosiers said they performed several 'takes' of
their 'reactions' of that moment, because the producers wanted
better 'emotions' from them than what they were giving.

sadmad: Hmmm. This sounds familiar.

MM: Wait. It gets better. The home looked great from the outside, but
when the family got indoors they found that the facade of new windows
installed made it look like a whole new story with new bedrooms had
been added - but it was for show!

OS: They also found floors that buckled, electrical, heating and
plumbing problems. The new washing machine that  had been installed,
for instance, didn't even have a drain. In addition, their yard had
been leveled, and their swimming pool was now completely gone - along
with all the old handmade oak cabinets.

MM: Sharon Rosier said she wanted to cry from the devestation they had
wrought.

OS: All this probably would never have been brought to light except
that the Rosiers brought a lawsuit against the production company which
was recently settles out of court.

MM: Do we need to give you three guesses as to who this particular
television production in question here was, sadmad?

sadmad: How about if you give me one, and the other two won't count -
Rocket Science Laboratories and the FOX Network, as I live and breathe.

OS: Bingo!

sadmad: Like I said, it all sounded eerily familiar, didn't it?


(Part V to follow.)

Sehr gut, mein freund!


Hallo!  I have come out of retirement because your series on JM2 is
so incredible.  Keep up the good detective job and exposing those
damn liars at Fox/Rocket Science Laboratories.

It's funny, it seems that reality television is finally hitting the
bottom.  It seems to me that their demise is mostly due to the fact
that the general public has caught on to their falsehoods and
dishonest criminal deceit.


Thank you so much for your services!

Auf wiederhoren,
deutscher

OS: You haven't said anything for a while there, sadmad.

sadmad: Um, no. I guess I'm slightly at a loss for words.

OS: I can see why.

sadmad: I mean, I had gotten to the point where I could have,
conceivably, expected anything from those shameless SOB's at FOX -
but an outright bribe or payoff?

MM: Yep. We were slightly dumfounded ourselves.

sadmad: This does add an interesting perspective to so many aspects
of the show, now, in retrospect.

OS: We agree.

sadmad: We had remarked previously as to how ill-at-ease and
uncomfortable Linda acted around Cat and Petra when she met up with
them again in Venice - originally I had ascribed that to uneasiness
in her knowing that THEY knew why she had wanted to leave the show in
the first place.

MM: Knowing about her wanting to get away from the show because she
missed some boyfriend she had at that time back in Prague, you mean?

sadmad: Right. And her, then, realizing full well how suspicious they
would have been in seeing her back again after all that. Well, now,
with this information in tow, it almost makes you cringe at seeing
her performance there.

MM: Or make you laugh out loud. It's no wonder she was acting so
nervous. If I were her, I would at least hope I could show a little
outward embarrassment.

OS: The best I can say about Linda here, is that during
that 'performance' she, at least, looked like she may have been
experiencing a pang or two of guilt at what she knew.

sadmad: I guess that would be a hopeful way of looking at it. But
where was that subliminal reading of guilt in her expression or
manner when she was with David in Venice? Telling him how 'my dream
came true' (in being able to come back to the show once more, in
order to meet him again, that is) and then saying to him 'Thanks to
you, of course'! Thanks to HIM, her 'dream' had come through, she
says? Thanks to HIM?

MM: I know, I know. Am I alone now in having a picture of a
gargantuan, steaming hot load of what the girls all had to shovel out
of that stable on the 'Ranch Date'?

OS: Yeah. Linda seemed to display quite an aversion to horsesh*t
during the 'Ranch Date', but appears to have found a use for it later
on, didn't she?


(Part IV to follow.)






--- In joemillionaire@yahoogroups.com, "sadmad55" <sadmad55@...>
wrote:
>
> sadmad: An interesting update to the story, you were saying, Oliver?
>
> OLIVER STONE: Yes. It involves that deus ex machina of JM2 -
Linda's
> leaving the show (or asking David to allow her to leave) following
> the 'Ranch Date', and her subsequent return several episodes later.
>
> MICHAEL MOORE: Before we go any further, let's make sure we're all
on
> the same page here. To review, I believe we've already established
> that the stated reason for Linda wanting to leave the show at that
> time, the one offered or provided to us when we watched the show
> (that the other girls tried to convince her to leave and she ran
away
> because she couldn't handle their jealousy over her being David's
> clear favorite) was as bogus as a three dollar bill.
>
> sadmad: As I recall we had pretty much established (or strongly
> suggested) that the real reason Linda wanted to leave the
proceedings
> then was because she had grown tired of all the demands of the show
> and wanted to get back to a boyfriend she had back in Prague.
>
> OS: That's correct.
>
> sadmad: And that the FOX editors shamelessly juxtaposed quotes from
> Linda's so-called 'exit interview' (where we heard her going on
about
> how 'He has no idea what I've been going through' and how 'I wanted
> to go straight from the airport to see him') to make it appear that
> the 'he' and 'him' she was referring to then was David, when, in
all
> probablilty, she was referencing this boyfriend back in Prague.
>
> MM: Right again. Then, after telling David (and us, the audience)
how
> she felt he was calling for her and that she was in a panic for
> having made a huge mistake leaving him and the show how/when she
did,
> she rejoins the show in time for the sequence in Venice.
>
> sadmad; And then she acts tremendously ill-at-ease around Cat and
> Petra, especially after they begin to ask her why she decided to
come
> back - never telling them anything about it being due to her
feelings
> for David.
>
> MM: Very good.
>
> sadmad: As I recall, you guys had deduced or surmised (or
concluded)
> that after FOX had done all this b.s. to bring Linda back, it was,
> more than likely, a fait accompli that she was then going to end up
> being the 'winner'.
>
> OS: Right.
>
> sadmad: So what are you going to say? That that theory has been
> invalidated?
>
> MM: No. Just the opposite, in fact. We're going to offer
confirmation.
>
> sadmad: How so?
>
> OS: What if we were to tell you that we have it on pretty good
> authority that after Linda left the show, as a result of having
asked
> David to eliminate her, that she was approached by the FOX
producers
> with a little deal.
>
> sadmad: A deal? What do you mean?
>
> MM: A deal. One that stipulated that if she would agree to return
to
> the show and cooperate (for lack of a better word) until the end,
> they would guarantee she would be the 'winner' and walk away with
the
> big money prize.
>
> sadmad: Whaaaaaaat?
>
>
> (Part III to follow)
>

sadmad: An interesting update to the story, you were saying, Oliver?

OLIVER STONE: Yes. It involves that deus ex machina of JM2 - Linda's
leaving the show (or asking David to allow her to leave) following
the 'Ranch Date', and her subsequent return several episodes later.

MICHAEL MOORE: Before we go any further, let's make sure we're all on
the same page here. To review, I believe we've already established
that the stated reason for Linda wanting to leave the show at that
time, the one offered or provided to us when we watched the show
(that the other girls tried to convince her to leave and she ran away
because she couldn't handle their jealousy over her being David's
clear favorite) was as bogus as a three dollar bill.

sadmad: As I recall we had pretty much established (or strongly
suggested) that the real reason Linda wanted to leave the proceedings
then was because she had grown tired of all the demands of the show
and wanted to get back to a boyfriend she had back in Prague.

OS: That's correct.

sadmad: And that the FOX editors shamelessly juxtaposed quotes from
Linda's so-called 'exit interview' (where we heard her going on about
how 'He has no idea what I've been going through' and how 'I wanted
to go straight from the airport to see him') to make it appear that
the 'he' and 'him' she was referring to then was David, when, in all
probablilty, she was referencing this boyfriend back in Prague.

MM: Right again. Then, after telling David (and us, the audience) how
she felt he was calling for her and that she was in a panic for
having made a huge mistake leaving him and the show how/when she did,
she rejoins the show in time for the sequence in Venice.

sadmad; And then she acts tremendously ill-at-ease around Cat and
Petra, especially after they begin to ask her why she decided to come
back - never telling them anything about it being due to her feelings
for David.

MM: Very good.

sadmad: As I recall, you guys had deduced or surmised (or concluded)
that after FOX had done all this b.s. to bring Linda back, it was,
more than likely, a fait accompli that she was then going to end up
being the 'winner'.

OS: Right.

sadmad: So what are you going to say? That that theory has been
invalidated?

MM: No. Just the opposite, in fact. We're going to offer confirmation.

sadmad: How so?

OS: What if we were to tell you that we have it on pretty good
authority that after Linda left the show, as a result of having asked
David to eliminate her, that she was approached by the FOX producers
with a little deal.

sadmad: A deal? What do you mean?

MM: A deal. One that stipulated that if she would agree to return to
the show and cooperate (for lack of a better word) until the end,
they would guarantee she would be the 'winner' and walk away with the
big money prize.

sadmad: Whaaaaaaat?


(Part III to follow)

The other day I received another cryptic email request to appear at
the same Kansas City hotel as last year.

Hmmm, I thought. I wonder what this is all about?

I pulled into the parking garage and, just like last time, was met by
someone who led me to an elevator and then ushered me into the same
room/suite I had gone into the previous year. Again, to my
considerable surprise, I found myself face-to-face with the
filmmakers Michael Moore and Oliver Stone.

What follows is a transcript of that meeting -


sadmad: Well, well - we meet again, huh?

OLIVER STONE: How goes it, sadmad?

MICHAEL MOORE: 'Sup, man?

sadmad:  I'm alright, I guess. Say, Oliver, I saw your film "World
Trade Center" last year. I thought it was excellent; very moving.

OS: Thanks. I try.

sadmad: We ALL try. YOU succeed.

MM: Um, that's a line from "Casablanca", sadmad. Rick (Humphrey
Bogart) says that to Victor Laszlo.

sadmad: Heh. You caught me there, Michael.

OS: I guess you're wondering why we contacted you again.

sadmad: Well, to be honest, I sure did. By the way, what ever
happened to "Print The Legend", the collaborative expose on JM2. I
kept looking for it to appear, and nothing. Not even a whisper about
it in any of the trade publications either.

MM: At the last minute the financing fell through. Everyone's tired
of stories of corruption and deceit coming from the two of us, the
studio bosses told us.

OS: But we haven't given up on the idea of distributing it some day.
I haven't changed my opinion that "The Next Joe Millionaire" is still
the biggest fraud served up to an unsuspecting public maybe ever.

sadmad: So what did you want to let me in on then?

OS: Just that there's been a rather interesting update to the story
since we talked with you last year.


(Part II to follow.)

Where have all the "Cat" people gone ? No action here for awhile !
Doesn't anyone have any updates ?

How in the hell did you find those pictures.  And please please please
don't tell us that you took those pictures personally.  WOW!

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
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where the heck have you been and why have you forsaken us?

--- In joemillionaire@yahoogroups.com, "sadmad55" <sadmad55@...>
wrote:
>
>
> What WAS real amidst all the chicanery, I asked myself again. I
> pondered and pondered and finally came up with this, hey, if
nothing
> else my own feelings about Cat were real. She still remains the
most
> incredible girl I've ever seen. And heard. Not only on TV-- but
> ANYWHERE! Maybe that's enough 'reality' for one lifetime.
>
>
>

Amen to that. Truly extraordinary woman in every respect. Quite
astonishingly beautiful and charismatic, with more allurement,
attractiveness and appeal than one would have imagined to be
possible. It's one LUCKY LUCKY guy who eventually makes his dreams
come true with Cat, the eternally mysterious German beauty who
captured our hearts (and minds ... and pens/keyboards!)

I'll never forget her for sure and I'm pretty sure those still
looking in here won't either.

This is only a brief visit - thought I'd pay tribute to your heroic
efforts Mr. Sadmad, over the last few weeks, in making what seems
like a climactic posting, bringing discussion of this piece of TV
history to a fitting end. As you say, only one thing was ultimately
real - the effect that Cat has had on us, but for which this
programme would be labelled TV trash and not TV history.

As it is, it gave us the incredible Cat, so it's in the TV archives
for ever more, there for eternity to end all debates on which woman
on earth had the most "appeal," which girl was the most "beautiful,"
which girl had the most endearing personality, which woman, above
all others, had that undefinable "X" factor that makes your heart
beat faster, which one you'd live and die for ... There's only one
answer and WE know who it is ...

Here's to Cat - the most unforgettable, wonderful person we've had
the great good fortune to get to know, ever so slightly, through
watching and analysing this program which became a labour of love
for many of us. The longevity of this board is testament to that!

Good luck especially to Cat - I really hope all her wishes come true
and to everyone else reading ... final (and belated) goodbye, it's
been fun.

sadmad55 wrote:

What WAS real amidst all the chicanery, I asked myself again. I
pondered and pondered and finally came up with this, hey, if nothing
else my own feelings about Cat were real. She still remains the most
incredible girl I've ever seen. And heard. Not only on TV-- but
ANYWHERE! Maybe that's enough 'reality' for one lifetime.
______________________________________________________________


I completely agree.  Cat...what a woman!  ~heart flutters~

After replying to that last question with the cryptic answer they
gave, Michael Moore and Oliver Stone arose from their chairs and
peremptorily informed me that the interview had concluded.

I gathered up my notes and left the room. The mysterious, nameless
man who had met me in the garage earlier, met me again in the hallway
and led me back to the hotel garage. I got in my car and headed home.

Later that evening, I sat down and wondered: what in the hell had
just happened? I called the front desk at the hotel and asked if I
could be connected to the gentlemen in suite 80,000,000. I was told
the occupants had checked out. I asked if they had left any
forwarding address. I was told the suite had been registered to a Mr.
Paul D. Butler. Hmmmm. 'Mr. Butler' had left a forwarding address of
250K Olindaaissaskaank Ave., Stockholm, Sweeden. Hmmmm.

I thought to myself: okay, I've been off the hallucinogenic mushrooms
for a few years now-- I don't think I imagined all that. I played the
show through again. Everything MM and OS had said about the different
manipulations in all the different scenes was true. I started to
remember some other things that had piqued my curiousity previously,
but that I had neglected to ask about.

As far as 'staged' scenes, I wondered if that sequence of David
breaking down in the hotel room in Venice and delivering a profanity-
laced tirade about how he was 'fixin to freak out' about telling the
girls about his big lie had been set up? My own feeling was that it
did look plausible, since it was, BY FAR, the most realistic acting
performance he gave throughout the whole proceedings-- but who knows?

And during the Ball and in most of the elimination scenes that
ensued, you were able to catch occasional glimpses of camerapersons
off in the background somewhere. But, a second or so later, in
another angle, that cameraperson was not there. I recalled that when
Kristyna had been introduced to David at the Ball and they turned to
go over to the champagne bar, I had spotted Petra sitting next to
Olinda on a sofa in the background-- even though P was the last of
the girls who were introduced to David then. So what was she doing
there? Then I thought: maybe they shot and re-shot the introductions
and dancing at the Ball... and the happenings during the
eliminations. Not only to cover the different camera angles and get
the reaction shots, but also to possibly enhance dramatic effect, as
well. I wonder?

Then I looked at Anique's elimination again. She appeared to be very
composed and unemotional during the sequence, even after getting the
word she had been axed. Then afterwards, when she was packing and
leaving the Villa, she sounded a lot more peevish and vexed. How do
we account for that discrepancy? Was she really more upset at being
voted off and not being able to 'continue the journey' with David
than she had let on during the ceremony after she had gotten a little
time to think about it? Or... wait a minute. Most all of Anique's
closing epithet upon leaving was heard via a voiceover...

Applying all I had learned from MM and OS, I wondered if those 'I
didn't really expect this' and 'This just basically sucks' comments
of hers were edited in there from some other context to make it
appear she was piqued (when maybe she was more than happy to pull the
plug on the whole enterprise and get out of there and get ready for
school? Hmmmm. Sounds more than a little plausible, don't you think?

But I guess I'll never know.

And the thing is, I know I'll be waking up in the middle of the night
countless evenings in the future and wondering similar thoughts about
other scenes. Maybe you have a few others of your own.

What WAS real amidst all the chicanery, I asked myself again. I
pondered and pondered and finally came up with this, hey, if nothing
else my own feelings about Cat were real. She still remains the most
incredible girl I've ever seen. And heard. Not only on TV-- but
ANYWHERE! Maybe that's enough 'reality' for one lifetime.

sadmad: So what, actually, was real?

MM: The riddle of how those giant statues on Easter Island got there
might be easier to unravel!
____________________________________________________________


Great job!

~Five minute standing ovation~

Bravo!
Bravo!
Bravo!!!!

>Continuing my interview with filmmakers Michael Moore and Oliver
Stone in conjunction with their yet-to-be-titled collaboration on
JM2...>


OS: As far as the target audience the show's producers were trying to
reach... well, most people who latch onto these reality TV dating
seem (for whatever reason) to love the bitchiness or cattiness of the
girls as they interact with each other.

sadmad: You mean 'cat-fights'?

OS: Exactly. On JM2, the group of girls (despite being so diverse--
from the five different nationalities) all appeared to get along
rather well with each other.

MM: With the exception, according to certain accounts, being with or
toward Cat.

OS: But even if the other girls didn't like Cat (and/or vice-versa)
Cat's personality was such that she would not be the type to carry on
or instigate any dramatic fireworks-- she would, in all likelihood
have just kept to herself, stayed silent.

MM: So, to give their viewers the 'cat fights' they craved, the
producers kept Olinda around to stir things up and also (at least by
our estimation) manufactured scenes to conform to this image.

OS: Like that 'conversation' between Cat and Anique and Olinda in
Rome where we didn't actually see them mouthing any of audio and
the 'game' Petra accused Cat of playing with Anique later on there,
as well.

sadmad: In each case they used creative editing (both aural and
visual) to create something that, in all probability, wasn't really
there?

MM: Yep. If we believe certain behind-the-scenes accounts, then the
majority of the group had no interest in David either. So they used
the same techniques to manufacture 'cat fights' over him, too...

OS: ... the 'Petra accusing Cat of playing a game with poor, jealous
Anique in Rome' sequence you just brought up being a classic in point.

MM: Same thing applies to the 'jealous haridans successfully
convincing poor, sweet Linda to leave the show because she was
David's clear favorite' scenario following the Ranch Date.

sadmad: What about the sequence where Linda is in her Venice hotel
room writing the note to David and then gets up and goes to the door
to see Cat and David kissing out in the hallway?

OS: Where, after she gets up, the camera just happens to zoom in on
the new purse David had just gotten for her?

sadmad: Yeah.

MM: Salute the red flag, in our humble opinion!

OS: Also remember, the show was pretty much marketed as a group of
snobby European gold diggers chasing after David's money.

MM: We don't actually feel the JM2 women were really gold diggers--
any more than most women are.

sadmad: What do you mean by that?

MM: Hey, most girls would love to find a successful man. That doesn't
neccessarily make them gold diggers. We don't feel the JM2 girls were
really after David's money-- even if they actually swallowed the $80m
hoax part or not. But, beginning with the very questionable or
spurious 'reaction shot' of the the group responding to Samantha's
informing them of the $80m inheritance news, that looked to be
another similarly manufactured concoction.

OS: Bear in mind that almost every Reality show produced by Rocket
Science Laboratories for the FOX Network (like "My Big Fat Obnoxious
Boss" and "My Big Fat Obnoxious Fiancee" as well as both the "Joe
Millionaire" shows) had a very similar premise: they took a small
group of people and perpetrated upon them an elaborate hoax that
involved, as 'bait', a large sum of money.

MM: Then they appealed to the craven instincts of the group by
supposedly enticing them with this 'bait'.

OS: What followed then was glorified humiliation...

MM: But, then as if to atone for this inflicted humiliation,
they 'made things right' by conferring upon their contestant/subjects
an actual large sum of money-- like the million dollar split in JM1.

OS: And since they also thought their audience wanted a happy ending
on JM2, they manipulated things to get Linda to meet David in Texas
where they gave her the $250K and him the ranch.

sadmad: So what, actually, was real?

MM: The riddle of how those giant statues on Easter Island got there
might be easier to unravel!

>Continuing my interview with filmmakers Michael Moore and Oliver
Stone in conjunction with their yet-to-be-titled collaboration on
JM2...>


sadmad: Wow, guys-- from what you've described, this certainly
doesn't paint a very pretty picture of the people who had a hand in
producing and shaping what we saw on the show, does it?

OS: I would guess not.

MM: Its sort of ironic, isn't it, that a show that was based on the
pretext of an elaborate and gigantic hoax or lie went on to
incorporate those same things into so many different aspects of what
was brought to bear in the final product?

OS: And to think, it started from literally the very beginning or the
earliest gestation of the project, even in the casting stage.

MM: That's right. As you alluded to sadmad, all the girls who applied
to be on the show did so after seeing announcements offering a chance
to 'meet that certain someone' by interacting with a group of
American guys on a tropical island.

OS: And it wasn't until after they had put all the girls through a
battery of tests about their background and got them to sign on under
what you'd have to think of as false pretenses, did they inform them
of the rather substantial change in the format of the production.

MM: Yeah, and don't forget-- one aspect of those aforementioned
battery of tests was having to be administered a lie detector test!
In light of all we now know, this might rank as one of the most
brazen examples of irony in the history of the world.

OS: Or hypocrisy.

MM: And as you also pointed out, sadmad, how many of the girls would
have wanted anything to do with the show if the producers had been
upfront with them about their interacting with and vying for a rodeo
cowboy from Texas who sleeps in his pick-up truck and earned $11K a
year?

sadmad: Not many, I'm guessing.

MM: If the girls had signed on to appear on a show where they were
told about their meeting an American cowboy from Texas, even if it
was one who they thought had a lot of money, that would have been one
thing. Then they would have all been asking for it and deserved
whatever it was that they got. But they weren't.

sadmad: So not only were the JM2 girls deliberately deceived about
David's not having the money (which was, in essence, the premise of
the show) but they were also deceived about every other aspect of
David as well. So you have a little empathy for them, is that what
you're saying?

OS: Yeah, we really do.

sadmad: But why would the people who produced the show do all this?

MM: (sighs) Well, this may be a little uncomfortable if you're any
kind of a romantic, but the 'reality' is that Rocket Science
Laboratories and the FOX Network didn't spend who knows how many
millions of dollars in recruiting a small army of technicians and
casting agents and camera persons and editors and then fly them over
to Italy and then spend millions more on food, lodging and
transportation and then spend millions more on extensive advertising
and promotion in order to find David Smith a girlfriend or a mate.

OS: Same thing goes for any of the girls who saw their various
casting announcements in the different European cities and then
signed on in hopes of finding romance and 'that certain someone'.

MM: Right. Brace yourself here, but the reason for FOX agreeing to
spring for all that was to put on a show.

OS: One they felt their target audience was going to be receptive to.

sadmad: What, exactly, do you mean by that?


Part XXX to follow...

Here's a recent article from a San Antonio newspaper that included a
reference to the current activities of our cowboy. (Note interesting
reference to Linda.) No 'mo sho' biz 'fo D?

Unfortunately the link is too long to show on here, so, if you're
interested... cut and paste.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/stories/MYSA020806.04B.rodeo08.6af4d6
3.html


Oh, yeah... the latest edition of "The Bachelor" ended its run a few
weeks ago. According to reports, the guy and the girl he 'picked' have
already broken up and she's been spotted with someone else.

Cue music from The Four Tops: "It's the same old song..."

>Continuing my interview with filmmakers Michael Moore and Oliver
Stone in conjunction with their yet-to-be-titled collaboration on
JM2...>


sadmad: So what about the ending?

MM: First of all, after David tells Linda she was his choice there
was a pretty obvious edit right after he tells her about his lying
about the $80m. There was a measure of stammering from both D and L
and then Paul is shown appearing out of nowhere (as if he'd been
listening in) and telling Linda she has to leave the room and go
upstairs to make her decision about whether she wanted to stay with
him.

OS: David had brought something into the room with him-- some kind of
little gift that he had placed under his hat. You had heard a fairly
pronounced 'clunk' when he put the whateveritwas on a table just as
he sat down with her on the sofa.

sadmad: Yeah, I noticed that. But we never see the whateveritwas
because they never showed him giving it to her.

OS: But she does pick the whateveritwas up when she gets up and
leaves-- and she then leaves the room very dutifully upon Paul's
command.

MM: Then they show us several minutes worth of David waiting...
waiting... waiting... in ever increasing desperation on the palazzo
for Linda to show up in the back of the Villa before Paul finally
comes on and tells D very solemnly that she was not showing up.

OS: Well, of course, it became pretty common knowledge that right
after leaving that room there, upon being given the news of her
selection by David, the show's producers whisked Linda away from the
Villa, told her to get her visa in order, and then flew her over to
Texas for the finale.

MM: I'll tell you a funny story here... we had a funny feeling while
watching this lengthy 'waiting for Linda to show on the palazzo'
sequence at the end there.

sadmad: Funny? In what way?

MM: As in the red flags going up again.

sadmad: How so?

OS: Okay, we noticed David was wearing the same open-necked tuxedo
outfit he had on during the Ball-- both of which took place at the
same location, of course-- the palazzo.

MM: And the exact same group of musicians were present in the
background, including the female flute player.

OS: And all of them looking powerfully bored, I might add.

MM: (laughs) You said it!

sadmad: So what are you driving at?

OS: Noting the incredible amount of chicanery and deceit and
deception and manipulation we had observed previously to this point,
we were hit with the impulse that maybe, just maybe, both sequences
were taped at the same time.

sadmad: What do you mean?

MM: In other words, right after they taped the Ball sequence they got
the girls to leave and then taped several minutes of David just
standing there on the palazzo...

OS: ... with perhaps an offscreen producer telling him to act like
he's nervous or pensive or upset.

sadmad: You mean as if they knew or had planned all along to stage
the finale the way they did?

MM: Yep.

sadmad: A natural enough assumption, I guess. What made you believe
otherwise?

OS: We really thought we were on to something, but then we went back
and compared this sequence with the Ball several times and we finally
noticed that there was some rather large ornate drapery festooned
around the entranceway to the palazzo in the finale that wasn't there
during the Ball.

MM: When David gets to the ranch house on what was going to be his
new ranch there in Texas, he doesn't show much in the way of surprise
in seeing Paul there. Then, of course, he conveniently turns his back
on Paul and the ranch house after Paul reads him the letter from
Linda...

OS: ... instead of following after him and asking what this place was.

MM: Then when he meets up with Linda again (after she supposedly left
him standing there at the Villa because of 'the lie') he never
mentions anything to her at all in way of explanation, like you'd
normally think was applicable in that situation.

sadmad: Aw, c'mon guys! I mean we ALL knew that part was staged. That
never bothered me.

OS: Yeah. As a film buff, I did appreciate the little homage they did
at the end there to John Ford's famous Western "The Searchers". After
Paul walks back to the ranch house and David walks away to where his
horse was tethered, they frame him from inside the doorway of the
ranch house-- with darkness inside and the dazzling light outside--
until Linda walks out of the house from the shadow into the light
still framed by the doorway.

MM: Yep. One of the most famous images in the history of film.

http://www.jwaynefan.com/images/gallery/end.jpg


sadmad: Hey, I see what you mean. A nice touch. And another nice
touch as we see the cowboy and his lady ride off into the sunset.

OS: (laughs) Yeah, the artifically applied or edited in sunset.

sadmad: (groans)

MM: Kind of fitting, don't you think?



Part XXIX to follow...

>Continuing my interview with filmmakers Michael Moore and Oliver
Stone in conjunction with their yet-to-be-titled collaboration on
JM2...>


sadmad: So what's this big or pertinent question you're alluding to
here then, Oliver?

OS: Well, if David knew (or even strongly suspected) Linda already
had a boyfriend back in Prague, why would he still go ahead and
choose her as the one he wanted to give the promise ring to at the
end?

sadmad: Yeah, I never thought of that.

MM: As we see it, there would be three possible explanations or
rationales if that was the case...

sadmad: That he was crazy, demented and insane when he could have had
Cat?

OS: Very funny, Mr. Cat lover.

sadmad: Okay, what were they then?

MM: (a.) David was so besotted by Linda that he just didn't care and
deluded himself into thinking that that wouldn't matter.

OS: Or, (b.), When David met up with Linda again at the Tuscan ranch
upon her return, he must have said to her something like 'Linda, Cat
told me you have a boyfriend back in Prague and that's why you wanted
to leave-- to get back to him. So why are you back here now?

MM: In which case she would have replied either 'That's crazy David!
Look, I don't know what things Cat has been telling you about me, but
I don't have a boyfriend in Prague'-- and convinces him there was
nothing to the story...

OS: ... and thereby gives him a few doubts about Cat in the process.

sadmad: Sounds logical, I guess.

MM: Or else she would have said something like 'Yeah, David, I did
have a boyfriend back in Prague. But we had a lot of issues... a lot
of things we had to try to work out. And after seeing him again, just
recently we weren't able to do that. So that's why I'm back here with
you'.

sadmad: In other words, she convinces him that while she may, indeed,
have had a boyfriend, she had broken up with him and that she was now
fair game for him (David, that is?)

MM: Right.

OS: Or, (c.) Recall that Zora Andrich claimed that she found out that
the JM1 producers (who were one in the same for JM2, of course) had
told Evan to choose her.

sadmad: Meaning?

OS: You said you saw my film "JFK", right, sadmad?

sadmad: Yes.

OS: Do you recall the line from Shakespeare's "The Tempest" I
included in the closing credits of the film?

sadmad: Let me see... you mean "What's past is prologue."

OS: That's the one.

sadmad: So you mean...

OS: So we mean to suggest that David chose Linda at the end, despite
knowing or suspecting that she already had a boyfriend back in Prague
she had been pining away for, because he was told to by the producers.

sadmad: But David was crazy about Linda. You said so yourself.
Wouldn't he have picked her anyway?

MM: That's true. Maybe he would have. But once they brought Linda
back it was, in all likelihood, a fait accompli.

OS: Kind of reminds me of the machinations the CIA used to get Lee
Harvey Oswald back to America after he defected to Russia.

MM: Um... right, Oliver.

sadmad: Then what do you mean by a fait accompli, then?

MM: Linda could be made to look palatable...

OS: ... or better yet, 'angelic'...

MM: ... as compared to the bitchy, false and slutty Cat by the
editing.

OS: And they could so nicely dovetail the story of Linda's leaving
with the notional tale of her having to get away from the jealous
harpies in the group...

MM: ... with the equally notional tale of her asking to come back
again in order to be with David.

sadmad: So which version do you believe in then?

OS: Remember the adage of FOX News that was cited earlier: 'We
report. YOU decide.'


Part XXVIII to follow...

>Continuing my interview with filmmakers Michael Moore and Oliver
Stone in conjunction with their yet-to-be-titled collaboration on >
JM2...>


sadmad: So what is this about a hypothesis regarding the way the
group felt about Cat?

OS: Well, at least one segment of them anyway.

sadmad: What do you mean?

OS: Go back again to that interview Linda gave to that Prague
newspaper a year or so ago. She mentions something about how she
regretted telling the group (at the time of the Ranch Date) about her
desire to leave the show...

MM: ... and how we've kind of arrived at the feeling that what she
meant there was probably a reference to having told the group about
her having this boyfriend back in Prague that she wanted to get back
to in the worst way.

sadmad: I follow you.

OS: Well, Linda goes on to express what appears to be a considerable
degree of pique at Cat for supposedly telling David about that.

sadmad: Yes, I remember.

MM: Well, we thought that was kind of interesting. What would be so
duplicitous or evil or mendacious for Cat to have told David
something like 'Linda's been going on a lot as how she's unhappy and
not having any fun anymore and wants to go home'?

OS: More to the point, what would be false or misleading about Cat's
telling David that Linda wanted to leave?-- when she CLEARLY did!

sadmad: I see what you're saying.

MM: So what's the answer there, then?

sadmad: I guess I'd say there was nothing wrong in that-- if that's
all there was to it.

OS: Exactly. So that got us to thinking...

MM: We kind of felt that the only way Linda would have been really
ticked off at Cat in this situation would have been if Cat had told
David the reason WHY Linda wanted to leave.

sadmad: You mean telling him about her having this boyfriend back in
Prague?

MM: Right.

sadmad: Okay, I'm trying to be as objective as possible here-- being
a Cat fan and all-- but even if Cat had done that with the intent of,
perhaps, telling David that he was barking up the wrong tree in
trying to pursue Linda, I suppose you might be able suggest a certain
amount of gamesmanship on her part for so doing, couldn't you?

OS: True. But Linda says in this Prague newspaper interview that "She
(Cat) was really unhappy when I came back." Well, duh! If Cat liked
David and knew that Linda had done triple summersaults to get away
from the show because she already had a boyfriend back in Prague that
she had missed terribly and wanted to get back to, could you in any
way blame her for being chagrined, frustrated, mystified, ticked off,
upset (choose your own favorite adjective) to see her back there once
again?

sadmad: Good point.

OS: That would apply, I suppose, even if you wanted to impart the
more cynical interpretation that Cat just wanted to 'win'.

MM: So, accordingly, we thought of the possibilty of the girls (Most
specifically the Czechs) being royally ticked off at Cat for
informing... spilling the beans... tattling... (again, choose your
own favorite word) to David about something that they felt was none
of his business and was done deliberately by Cat to try to torpedo
Linda's chances to 'win' while enhancing her own.

sadmad: Interesting.

MM: But...

sadmad: But what?

MM: Nothing.

sadmad: Go ahead.

MM: I was just thinking that if Linda really did have a boyfriend
back in Prague (one that she in all likelihood hadn't told the
producers about in the first place) and ended up coming back to the
show when she knew David really liked her...

sadmad: Yes?

MM: Well, we were talking about applying a cynical interpretation on
someone just wanting to 'win' weren't we?

sadmad: Yikes!

OS: But that brings up another question. One of the most pertinent
questions of the whole business...


Part XXVII to follow...

--- In joemillionaire@yahoogroups.com, "nonpcperson"
<nonpcperson@...> wrote:
>
> sadmad55 wrote:
>
> right after she's introduced to David for the first time during the
> Ball, Yassamin comes on in an interview and says "He's a cute guy.
> Really cute, actually."
>
> ___________________________________________________________
>
>
> I would not be surprised if in the interviews they asked questions
> like "What do you think of Brad Pitt?"
>
> Of course, someone would say "He's a cute guy" and then the evil
> editor use that comment to make it seem as if she was referring to
> David.
>
> I'm pretty sure they asked a host of innocent questions all
designed
> to be used in the editing room to trick us and manipulate the
> story.  These people are worse than used car salesmen...they are
> evil to the core.


This is more likely as not, true in every respect. We're embarrassed
to admit that we didn't think of this.

Sincerely,
Michael Moore & Oliver Stone

sadmad55 wrote:

right after she's introduced to David for the first time during the
Ball, Yassamin comes on in an interview and says "He's a cute guy.
Really cute, actually."

___________________________________________________________


I would not be surprised if in the interviews they asked questions
like "What do you think of Brad Pitt?"

Of course, someone would say "He's a cute guy" and then the evil
editor use that comment to make it seem as if she was referring to
David.

I'm pretty sure they asked a host of innocent questions all designed
to be used in the editing room to trick us and manipulate the
story.  These people are worse than used car salesmen...they are
evil to the core.