Rules of the Game

1. Criticism.  Serious, not serious, sound drubbings, round
mockings, and utter gushing - all allowed.  No, really. Gen,
het, and slash discussion is permitted, and no character or
pairing is privileged or forbidden.

2. Purpose.  Contrary to what some people seem to believe, we
are not here to workshop writers.  There are other lists for
that.  Criticism is by readers, for readers; we don't care if
the author knows about the critique or not, and although we
certainly don't object to authorial participation, CritEdge is
not a forum for authors in terms of criticism.

It is a forum for authors in terms of research and resources.
Because HL canon theoretically encompasses all of history and a
cast of billions, discussions of history, culture, and fencing
are as on-topic as Whether Methos Really Only Drinks Beer
Onscreen (he doesn't).

3. The Mannerly Art of Critique. "The Mannerly Art of
Critique" is a document that has been around for quite some time
in the newsgroups the list moderators started reading and
critiquing fan fiction.

In general, it is an excellent guide for how to have critical
discussions without degenerating into personal attacks. It is
also a piece of material that the list moderators didn't want to
lift entire chunks from wholesale, nor did they want to rewrite
it; further, the entire document is phrased as suggestions, not
as hard-and-fast rules.  The list moderators *are* rewriting it
for this list, but it's a slow process.

To address a specific issue in the current form of the document:
"The Mannerly Art of Critique" contains the following:

"Only crit those who have INVITED crit, or who have given you
permission when you ask."

This is *not* policy on this list. The list moderators consider
the very act of having made a piece of fanfiction available as
both invitation and permission to critique; no specific
permission is necessary.

4. Post trimming.  Please cut out irrelevant things from your
responses. It's annoying to have to read through the entire
previous post (or more!) to get to whatever a new poster has to
say.  This is extra-courteous for those who are on digest, or
who have to pay for online time or by the amount downloaded.

5. Metadiscussion.  This is a big one.  Many lists ban it;
CriticalEdge does not.

What this means: you can talk about discussion - how to write
criticism, why to write criticism, whether you like the tone of
a particular piece of criticism.

What it doesn't mean is that it's a free-for-all.  It's not.
Personal attacks are off-limits; telling people they *cannot* or
*should not* criticize is not permitted.

"I don't like the tone of your critique" is fine.  "I don't
think you should write critique" is not.

6. No one except one of the list moderators has the right to
tell any members of the list to play nice. Even if you really
wish other members of the list would play nice--well, you can
*ask* them to play nice, but you're not going to get backup from
this quarter.

Basically, the rule here is "play as mean as you want, as long
as you don't make ad hominem attacks or threats." Think of it as
a rough soccer game. Violence allowed, but sportsmanship counts.

7. Sockpuppets and trolls.  Historically, we have a problem
with these.  (They are especially fond of emerging from the
woodwork when one or both of the list moderators are out of town
or otherwise unable to access their computers.)  Don't respond
to them.  If you respond and then realize they're a troll or
sockpuppet, don't keep responding.

What they want most is to cause a ruckus.  Don't let them.

8. Ad hominem (personal) attacks.  If you do this too much,
and the list moderators might ban you for being disruptive; you
will be warned and put on moderated status first should this
issue actually arise.

Calling anyone mean, or stupid, or fat - those are the obvious
types of personal attack.

Talking about who's in who else's kill file is a no-no.

Attributing a lack of intelligence, adulthood, tact, etc. to
particular individuals is a no-no.

Accusing list members of being puppeteers (the people behind a
sockpuppet) is a no-no.

Asking someone *directly*, in a response to a post they have
made, if they are a sockpuppet is allowed, as is asking them if
they are a puppeteer.  (You should be aware that such questions
often turn into flamewars.)

Saying things like "I *could* call you [insult], but I won't"
counts as saying that thing.

Heated discussion is fine. Arguments that result in lifelong
fannish enmity due to political positions on slash, gen, het, or
Joe's brand of hair gel are also fine. Attacking other people is
NOT fine.  Don't do it.

9. Threats.  These can get you banned from the list
immediately.  No pardon, no appeal. The list moderators don't
want to stop people from expressing themselves in a free &
raucous manner, but anything that might be construed as a threat
of violence has to be done (a) in a humorous manner *and* (b)
only to your closest friends. So if, for instance, Mary Ellen
says something outrageous, Laura can write: "OK, that's it, I'm
sending Caspian to your house for breakfast." and trust it will
be clear to all that no actual rancor is involved. If it might
not be clear to all that your threats are only in fun, DO NOT
POST. Specifically, do not post if you are making joking threats
to someone to whom you do not consider yourself close.

If you are actually close friends but the list has no reason to
know it, you need to say something like, "Speaking as one of
your close friends, I'll rip your head off with a spoon."

The list moderators have no wish to be as humorless as airport
security guards, but they have to take seriously-phrased threats
seriously.

10. Flamewars.  Don't participate.  They are no one's friend.

11. Real Person Fiction and MiSTs.

Discussion of Real Person Fic or ideas, like every other kind of
writing or ideas, is not out of bounds on CritEdge. Posters
should be aware that these are contentious issues and some
people may get upset. No topic will be ruled OT on the grounds
that it is upsetting.

Line-by-line critiques are permitted.  The list moderators
prefer other forms of criticism.  Out and out MiSTS (fiction
mocking the other story in a line-by-line way) are not; they are
fiction, not critique.

12. Zine Stories. On-topic. Go ahead and yammer away. Just make
sure to label the posts, so that those who don't have the zine
and don't want to be spoiled (or who *do* want to be spoiled)
can avoid (or gobble up) the posts.

You can label in the subject line (probably the kindest way to
do it, especially for those list members on slow connections) or
put a note in the first line of your post that you're discussing
[Name of Zine] or [Story from Name of Zine]. You can also put in
spoiler space if you like, but it's not required.


Other Information:

A. What happens when someone violates a list rule?

That person's post may be the subject of an ADMIN post, the
person may be contacted about the violation offlist, the person
may be set on moderated status, or the admins may decide that
the provocation was sufficient.

Usually that last never comes into play unless the person is a
longtime listmember with a history of obeying the list rules but
violates one because of extreme circumstances.

B. What will get an ADMIN post?

When someone violates a list rule, they *usually*, though not
always, have done one of four things.

1. they have posted something off-topic without labelling it
such
2. they have made a personal attack in a way that warrants on-
list commentary from us
3. they are participating in a flamewar
4. they have made a personal attack in a way that does not
warrant on-list commentary from us.

Areas 1 through 3 are likely to get an ADMIN post.

Area 2 and Area 4 are where the interesting bits come in: what
warrants commentary? Generally, what is going to get an ADMIN
post falls into three areas:

1. a comment which is really incredibly nasty, such as implying
that someone is a rapist, murderer, pedophile, etc. based on
either their posts or their fiction
2. a comment made obliquely or that appears to be an attempt to
disguise an insult.
3. a comment not as nasty as A, but which the poster has a habit
of making, especially if they direct such attack against a
particular person repeatedly.

Anything outside of these three areas is unlikely to get an
ADMIN-post addressing it; usually, the poster just receives a
note off-list telling them what they did, and asking them not to
do it again.

The list moderators *do* try to keep the ADMIN'ing down, and
keeping some of it off-list helps with that. The list is fairly
volatile but not, generally speaking, unmanageable or prone to
spontaneous hostility; a great deal of comments in Area 4 are
just poor wording choices or heat-of-the-moment-thoughtlessness.

The list moderators try to apply these rules fairly; they'd like
their frequent opponents to be as comfortable here as their
frequent supporters.

C. What will get someone set on moderated status?

Moderated status is at the administrators' discretion.  Anything
that garners an ADMIN post can also get you moderated.  Repeated
and persistent disruption of the list can get you moderated.
Ignoring an admin post can get you moderated. Making the admins
lose sleep over your behavior can get you moderated.

It's not something we like to do, but we will if we have to.

D. What will get you banned?

Trying to get around moderated status by posting from another
account will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.  Making
death threats on-list will get you banned.  Engaging in
sockpuppetry will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.
Repeated and persistent disruption of the list can get you banned.
If we have to moderate you repeatedly, we may ban you to save
ourselves the headache of dealing with you.

Rules of the Game

1. Criticism.  Serious, not serious, sound drubbings, round
mockings, and utter gushing - all allowed.  No, really. Gen,
het, and slash discussion is permitted, and no character or
pairing is privileged or forbidden.

2. Purpose.  Contrary to what some people seem to believe, we
are not here to workshop writers.  There are other lists for
that.  Criticism is by readers, for readers; we don't care if
the author knows about the critique or not, and although we
certainly don't object to authorial participation, CritEdge is
not a forum for authors in terms of criticism.

It is a forum for authors in terms of research and resources.
Because HL canon theoretically encompasses all of history and a
cast of billions, discussions of history, culture, and fencing
are as on-topic as Whether Methos Really Only Drinks Beer
Onscreen (he doesn't).

3. The Mannerly Art of Critique. "The Mannerly Art of
Critique" is a document that has been around for quite some time
in the newsgroups the list moderators started reading and
critiquing fan fiction.

In general, it is an excellent guide for how to have critical
discussions without degenerating into personal attacks. It is
also a piece of material that the list moderators didn't want to
lift entire chunks from wholesale, nor did they want to rewrite
it; further, the entire document is phrased as suggestions, not
as hard-and-fast rules.  The list moderators *are* rewriting it
for this list, but it's a slow process.

To address a specific issue in the current form of the document:
"The Mannerly Art of Critique" contains the following:

"Only crit those who have INVITED crit, or who have given you
permission when you ask."

This is *not* policy on this list. The list moderators consider
the very act of having made a piece of fanfiction available as
both invitation and permission to critique; no specific
permission is necessary.

4. Post trimming.  Please cut out irrelevant things from your
responses. It's annoying to have to read through the entire
previous post (or more!) to get to whatever a new poster has to
say.  This is extra-courteous for those who are on digest, or
who have to pay for online time or by the amount downloaded.

5. Metadiscussion.  This is a big one.  Many lists ban it;
CriticalEdge does not.

What this means: you can talk about discussion - how to write
criticism, why to write criticism, whether you like the tone of
a particular piece of criticism.

What it doesn't mean is that it's a free-for-all.  It's not.
Personal attacks are off-limits; telling people they *cannot* or
*should not* criticize is not permitted.

"I don't like the tone of your critique" is fine.  "I don't
think you should write critique" is not.

6. No one except one of the list moderators has the right to
tell any members of the list to play nice. Even if you really
wish other members of the list would play nice--well, you can
*ask* them to play nice, but you're not going to get backup from
this quarter.

Basically, the rule here is "play as mean as you want, as long
as you don't make ad hominem attacks or threats." Think of it as
a rough soccer game. Violence allowed, but sportsmanship counts.

7. Sockpuppets and trolls.  Historically, we have a problem
with these.  (They are especially fond of emerging from the
woodwork when one or both of the list moderators are out of town
or otherwise unable to access their computers.)  Don't respond
to them.  If you respond and then realize they're a troll or
sockpuppet, don't keep responding.

What they want most is to cause a ruckus.  Don't let them.

8. Ad hominem (personal) attacks.  If you do this too much,
and the list moderators might ban you for being disruptive; you
will be warned and put on moderated status first should this
issue actually arise.

Calling anyone mean, or stupid, or fat - those are the obvious
types of personal attack.

Talking about who's in who else's kill file is a no-no.

Attributing a lack of intelligence, adulthood, tact, etc. to
particular individuals is a no-no.

Accusing list members of being puppeteers (the people behind a
sockpuppet) is a no-no.

Asking someone *directly*, in a response to a post they have
made, if they are a sockpuppet is allowed, as is asking them if
they are a puppeteer.  (You should be aware that such questions
often turn into flamewars.)

Saying things like "I *could* call you [insult], but I won't"
counts as saying that thing.

Heated discussion is fine. Arguments that result in lifelong
fannish enmity due to political positions on slash, gen, het, or
Joe's brand of hair gel are also fine. Attacking other people is
NOT fine.  Don't do it.

9. Threats.  These can get you banned from the list
immediately.  No pardon, no appeal. The list moderators don't
want to stop people from expressing themselves in a free &
raucous manner, but anything that might be construed as a threat
of violence has to be done (a) in a humorous manner *and* (b)
only to your closest friends. So if, for instance, Mary Ellen
says something outrageous, Laura can write: "OK, that's it, I'm
sending Caspian to your house for breakfast." and trust it will
be clear to all that no actual rancor is involved. If it might
not be clear to all that your threats are only in fun, DO NOT
POST. Specifically, do not post if you are making joking threats
to someone to whom you do not consider yourself close.

If you are actually close friends but the list has no reason to
know it, you need to say something like, "Speaking as one of
your close friends, I'll rip your head off with a spoon."

The list moderators have no wish to be as humorless as airport
security guards, but they have to take seriously-phrased threats
seriously.

10. Flamewars.  Don't participate.  They are no one's friend.

11. Real Person Fiction and MiSTs.

Discussion of Real Person Fic or ideas, like every other kind of
writing or ideas, is not out of bounds on CritEdge. Posters
should be aware that these are contentious issues and some
people may get upset. No topic will be ruled OT on the grounds
that it is upsetting.

Line-by-line critiques are permitted.  The list moderators
prefer other forms of criticism.  Out and out MiSTS (fiction
mocking the other story in a line-by-line way) are not; they are
fiction, not critique.

12. Zine Stories. On-topic. Go ahead and yammer away. Just make
sure to label the posts, so that those who don't have the zine
and don't want to be spoiled (or who *do* want to be spoiled)
can avoid (or gobble up) the posts.

You can label in the subject line (probably the kindest way to
do it, especially for those list members on slow connections) or
put a note in the first line of your post that you're discussing
[Name of Zine] or [Story from Name of Zine]. You can also put in
spoiler space if you like, but it's not required.


Other Information:

A. What happens when someone violates a list rule?

That person's post may be the subject of an ADMIN post, the
person may be contacted about the violation offlist, the person
may be set on moderated status, or the admins may decide that
the provocation was sufficient.

Usually that last never comes into play unless the person is a
longtime listmember with a history of obeying the list rules but
violates one because of extreme circumstances.

B. What will get an ADMIN post?

When someone violates a list rule, they *usually*, though not
always, have done one of four things.

1. they have posted something off-topic without labelling it
such
2. they have made a personal attack in a way that warrants on-
list commentary from us
3. they are participating in a flamewar
4. they have made a personal attack in a way that does not
warrant on-list commentary from us.

Areas 1 through 3 are likely to get an ADMIN post.

Area 2 and Area 4 are where the interesting bits come in: what
warrants commentary? Generally, what is going to get an ADMIN
post falls into three areas:

1. a comment which is really incredibly nasty, such as implying
that someone is a rapist, murderer, pedophile, etc. based on
either their posts or their fiction
2. a comment made obliquely or that appears to be an attempt to
disguise an insult.
3. a comment not as nasty as A, but which the poster has a habit
of making, especially if they direct such attack against a
particular person repeatedly.

Anything outside of these three areas is unlikely to get an
ADMIN-post addressing it; usually, the poster just receives a
note off-list telling them what they did, and asking them not to
do it again.

The list moderators *do* try to keep the ADMIN'ing down, and
keeping some of it off-list helps with that. The list is fairly
volatile but not, generally speaking, unmanageable or prone to
spontaneous hostility; a great deal of comments in Area 4 are
just poor wording choices or heat-of-the-moment-thoughtlessness.

The list moderators try to apply these rules fairly; they'd like
their frequent opponents to be as comfortable here as their
frequent supporters.

C. What will get someone set on moderated status?

Moderated status is at the administrators' discretion.  Anything
that garners an ADMIN post can also get you moderated.  Repeated
and persistent disruption of the list can get you moderated.
Ignoring an admin post can get you moderated. Making the admins
lose sleep over your behavior can get you moderated.

It's not something we like to do, but we will if we have to.

D. What will get you banned?

Trying to get around moderated status by posting from another
account will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.  Making
death threats on-list will get you banned.  Engaging in
sockpuppetry will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.
Repeated and persistent disruption of the list can get you banned.
If we have to moderate you repeatedly, we may ban you to save
ourselves the headache of dealing with you.

Rules of the Game

1. Criticism.  Serious, not serious, sound drubbings, round
mockings, and utter gushing - all allowed.  No, really. Gen,
het, and slash discussion is permitted, and no character or
pairing is privileged or forbidden.

2. Purpose.  Contrary to what some people seem to believe, we
are not here to workshop writers.  There are other lists for
that.  Criticism is by readers, for readers; we don't care if
the author knows about the critique or not, and although we
certainly don't object to authorial participation, CritEdge is
not a forum for authors in terms of criticism.

It is a forum for authors in terms of research and resources.
Because HL canon theoretically encompasses all of history and a
cast of billions, discussions of history, culture, and fencing
are as on-topic as Whether Methos Really Only Drinks Beer
Onscreen (he doesn't).

3. The Mannerly Art of Critique. "The Mannerly Art of
Critique" is a document that has been around for quite some time
in the newsgroups the list moderators started reading and
critiquing fan fiction.

In general, it is an excellent guide for how to have critical
discussions without degenerating into personal attacks. It is
also a piece of material that the list moderators didn't want to
lift entire chunks from wholesale, nor did they want to rewrite
it; further, the entire document is phrased as suggestions, not
as hard-and-fast rules.  The list moderators *are* rewriting it
for this list, but it's a slow process.

To address a specific issue in the current form of the document:
"The Mannerly Art of Critique" contains the following:

"Only crit those who have INVITED crit, or who have given you
permission when you ask."

This is *not* policy on this list. The list moderators consider
the very act of having made a piece of fanfiction available as
both invitation and permission to critique; no specific
permission is necessary.

4. Post trimming.  Please cut out irrelevant things from your
responses. It's annoying to have to read through the entire
previous post (or more!) to get to whatever a new poster has to
say.  This is extra-courteous for those who are on digest, or
who have to pay for online time or by the amount downloaded.

5. Metadiscussion.  This is a big one.  Many lists ban it;
CriticalEdge does not.

What this means: you can talk about discussion - how to write
criticism, why to write criticism, whether you like the tone of
a particular piece of criticism.

What it doesn't mean is that it's a free-for-all.  It's not.
Personal attacks are off-limits; telling people they *cannot* or
*should not* criticize is not permitted.

"I don't like the tone of your critique" is fine.  "I don't
think you should write critique" is not.

6. No one except one of the list moderators has the right to
tell any members of the list to play nice. Even if you really
wish other members of the list would play nice--well, you can
*ask* them to play nice, but you're not going to get backup from
this quarter.

Basically, the rule here is "play as mean as you want, as long
as you don't make ad hominem attacks or threats." Think of it as
a rough soccer game. Violence allowed, but sportsmanship counts.

7. Sockpuppets and trolls.  Historically, we have a problem
with these.  (They are especially fond of emerging from the
woodwork when one or both of the list moderators are out of town
or otherwise unable to access their computers.)  Don't respond
to them.  If you respond and then realize they're a troll or
sockpuppet, don't keep responding.

What they want most is to cause a ruckus.  Don't let them.

8. Ad hominem (personal) attacks.  If you do this too much,
and the list moderators might ban you for being disruptive; you
will be warned and put on moderated status first should this
issue actually arise.

Calling anyone mean, or stupid, or fat - those are the obvious
types of personal attack.

Talking about who's in who else's kill file is a no-no.

Attributing a lack of intelligence, adulthood, tact, etc. to
particular individuals is a no-no.

Accusing list members of being puppeteers (the people behind a
sockpuppet) is a no-no.

Asking someone *directly*, in a response to a post they have
made, if they are a sockpuppet is allowed, as is asking them if
they are a puppeteer.  (You should be aware that such questions
often turn into flamewars.)

Saying things like "I *could* call you [insult], but I won't"
counts as saying that thing.

Heated discussion is fine. Arguments that result in lifelong
fannish enmity due to political positions on slash, gen, het, or
Joe's brand of hair gel are also fine. Attacking other people is
NOT fine.  Don't do it.

9. Threats.  These can get you banned from the list
immediately.  No pardon, no appeal. The list moderators don't
want to stop people from expressing themselves in a free &
raucous manner, but anything that might be construed as a threat
of violence has to be done (a) in a humorous manner *and* (b)
only to your closest friends. So if, for instance, Mary Ellen
says something outrageous, Laura can write: "OK, that's it, I'm
sending Caspian to your house for breakfast." and trust it will
be clear to all that no actual rancor is involved. If it might
not be clear to all that your threats are only in fun, DO NOT
POST. Specifically, do not post if you are making joking threats
to someone to whom you do not consider yourself close.

If you are actually close friends but the list has no reason to
know it, you need to say something like, "Speaking as one of
your close friends, I'll rip your head off with a spoon."

The list moderators have no wish to be as humorless as airport
security guards, but they have to take seriously-phrased threats
seriously.

10. Flamewars.  Don't participate.  They are no one's friend.

11. Real Person Fiction and MiSTs.

Discussion of Real Person Fic or ideas, like every other kind of
writing or ideas, is not out of bounds on CritEdge. Posters
should be aware that these are contentious issues and some
people may get upset. No topic will be ruled OT on the grounds
that it is upsetting.

Line-by-line critiques are permitted.  The list moderators
prefer other forms of criticism.  Out and out MiSTS (fiction
mocking the other story in a line-by-line way) are not; they are
fiction, not critique.

12. Zine Stories. On-topic. Go ahead and yammer away. Just make
sure to label the posts, so that those who don't have the zine
and don't want to be spoiled (or who *do* want to be spoiled)
can avoid (or gobble up) the posts.

You can label in the subject line (probably the kindest way to
do it, especially for those list members on slow connections) or
put a note in the first line of your post that you're discussing
[Name of Zine] or [Story from Name of Zine]. You can also put in
spoiler space if you like, but it's not required.


Other Information:

A. What happens when someone violates a list rule?

That person's post may be the subject of an ADMIN post, the
person may be contacted about the violation offlist, the person
may be set on moderated status, or the admins may decide that
the provocation was sufficient.

Usually that last never comes into play unless the person is a
longtime listmember with a history of obeying the list rules but
violates one because of extreme circumstances.

B. What will get an ADMIN post?

When someone violates a list rule, they *usually*, though not
always, have done one of four things.

1. they have posted something off-topic without labelling it
such
2. they have made a personal attack in a way that warrants on-
list commentary from us
3. they are participating in a flamewar
4. they have made a personal attack in a way that does not
warrant on-list commentary from us.

Areas 1 through 3 are likely to get an ADMIN post.

Area 2 and Area 4 are where the interesting bits come in: what
warrants commentary? Generally, what is going to get an ADMIN
post falls into three areas:

1. a comment which is really incredibly nasty, such as implying
that someone is a rapist, murderer, pedophile, etc. based on
either their posts or their fiction
2. a comment made obliquely or that appears to be an attempt to
disguise an insult.
3. a comment not as nasty as A, but which the poster has a habit
of making, especially if they direct such attack against a
particular person repeatedly.

Anything outside of these three areas is unlikely to get an
ADMIN-post addressing it; usually, the poster just receives a
note off-list telling them what they did, and asking them not to
do it again.

The list moderators *do* try to keep the ADMIN'ing down, and
keeping some of it off-list helps with that. The list is fairly
volatile but not, generally speaking, unmanageable or prone to
spontaneous hostility; a great deal of comments in Area 4 are
just poor wording choices or heat-of-the-moment-thoughtlessness.

The list moderators try to apply these rules fairly; they'd like
their frequent opponents to be as comfortable here as their
frequent supporters.

C. What will get someone set on moderated status?

Moderated status is at the administrators' discretion.  Anything
that garners an ADMIN post can also get you moderated.  Repeated
and persistent disruption of the list can get you moderated.
Ignoring an admin post can get you moderated. Making the admins
lose sleep over your behavior can get you moderated.

It's not something we like to do, but we will if we have to.

D. What will get you banned?

Trying to get around moderated status by posting from another
account will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.  Making
death threats on-list will get you banned.  Engaging in
sockpuppetry will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.
Repeated and persistent disruption of the list can get you banned.
If we have to moderate you repeatedly, we may ban you to save
ourselves the headache of dealing with you.

Rules of the Game

1. Criticism.  Serious, not serious, sound drubbings, round
mockings, and utter gushing - all allowed.  No, really. Gen,
het, and slash discussion is permitted, and no character or
pairing is privileged or forbidden.

2. Purpose.  Contrary to what some people seem to believe, we
are not here to workshop writers.  There are other lists for
that.  Criticism is by readers, for readers; we don't care if
the author knows about the critique or not, and although we
certainly don't object to authorial participation, CritEdge is
not a forum for authors in terms of criticism.

It is a forum for authors in terms of research and resources.
Because HL canon theoretically encompasses all of history and a
cast of billions, discussions of history, culture, and fencing
are as on-topic as Whether Methos Really Only Drinks Beer
Onscreen (he doesn't).

3. The Mannerly Art of Critique. "The Mannerly Art of
Critique" is a document that has been around for quite some time
in the newsgroups the list moderators started reading and
critiquing fan fiction.

In general, it is an excellent guide for how to have critical
discussions without degenerating into personal attacks. It is
also a piece of material that the list moderators didn't want to
lift entire chunks from wholesale, nor did they want to rewrite
it; further, the entire document is phrased as suggestions, not
as hard-and-fast rules.  The list moderators *are* rewriting it
for this list, but it's a slow process.

To address a specific issue in the current form of the document:
"The Mannerly Art of Critique" contains the following:

"Only crit those who have INVITED crit, or who have given you
permission when you ask."

This is *not* policy on this list. The list moderators consider
the very act of having made a piece of fanfiction available as
both invitation and permission to critique; no specific
permission is necessary.

4. Post trimming.  Please cut out irrelevant things from your
responses. It's annoying to have to read through the entire
previous post (or more!) to get to whatever a new poster has to
say.  This is extra-courteous for those who are on digest, or
who have to pay for online time or by the amount downloaded.

5. Metadiscussion.  This is a big one.  Many lists ban it;
CriticalEdge does not.

What this means: you can talk about discussion - how to write
criticism, why to write criticism, whether you like the tone of
a particular piece of criticism.

What it doesn't mean is that it's a free-for-all.  It's not.
Personal attacks are off-limits; telling people they *cannot* or
*should not* criticize is not permitted.

"I don't like the tone of your critique" is fine.  "I don't
think you should write critique" is not.

6. No one except one of the list moderators has the right to
tell any members of the list to play nice. Even if you really
wish other members of the list would play nice--well, you can
*ask* them to play nice, but you're not going to get backup from
this quarter.

Basically, the rule here is "play as mean as you want, as long
as you don't make ad hominem attacks or threats." Think of it as
a rough soccer game. Violence allowed, but sportsmanship counts.

7. Sockpuppets and trolls.  Historically, we have a problem
with these.  (They are especially fond of emerging from the
woodwork when one or both of the list moderators are out of town
or otherwise unable to access their computers.)  Don't respond
to them.  If you respond and then realize they're a troll or
sockpuppet, don't keep responding.

What they want most is to cause a ruckus.  Don't let them.

8. Ad hominem (personal) attacks.  If you do this too much,
and the list moderators might ban you for being disruptive; you
will be warned and put on moderated status first should this
issue actually arise.

Calling anyone mean, or stupid, or fat - those are the obvious
types of personal attack.

Talking about who's in who else's kill file is a no-no.

Attributing a lack of intelligence, adulthood, tact, etc. to
particular individuals is a no-no.

Accusing list members of being puppeteers (the people behind a
sockpuppet) is a no-no.

Asking someone *directly*, in a response to a post they have
made, if they are a sockpuppet is allowed, as is asking them if
they are a puppeteer.  (You should be aware that such questions
often turn into flamewars.)

Saying things like "I *could* call you [insult], but I won't"
counts as saying that thing.

Heated discussion is fine. Arguments that result in lifelong
fannish enmity due to political positions on slash, gen, het, or
Joe's brand of hair gel are also fine. Attacking other people is
NOT fine.  Don't do it.

9. Threats.  These can get you banned from the list
immediately.  No pardon, no appeal. The list moderators don't
want to stop people from expressing themselves in a free &
raucous manner, but anything that might be construed as a threat
of violence has to be done (a) in a humorous manner *and* (b)
only to your closest friends. So if, for instance, Mary Ellen
says something outrageous, Laura can write: "OK, that's it, I'm
sending Caspian to your house for breakfast." and trust it will
be clear to all that no actual rancor is involved. If it might
not be clear to all that your threats are only in fun, DO NOT
POST. Specifically, do not post if you are making joking threats
to someone to whom you do not consider yourself close.

If you are actually close friends but the list has no reason to
know it, you need to say something like, "Speaking as one of
your close friends, I'll rip your head off with a spoon."

The list moderators have no wish to be as humorless as airport
security guards, but they have to take seriously-phrased threats
seriously.

10. Flamewars.  Don't participate.  They are no one's friend.

11. Real Person Fiction and MiSTs.

Discussion of Real Person Fic or ideas, like every other kind of
writing or ideas, is not out of bounds on CritEdge. Posters
should be aware that these are contentious issues and some
people may get upset. No topic will be ruled OT on the grounds
that it is upsetting.

Line-by-line critiques are permitted.  The list moderators
prefer other forms of criticism.  Out and out MiSTS (fiction
mocking the other story in a line-by-line way) are not; they are
fiction, not critique.

12. Zine Stories. On-topic. Go ahead and yammer away. Just make
sure to label the posts, so that those who don't have the zine
and don't want to be spoiled (or who *do* want to be spoiled)
can avoid (or gobble up) the posts.

You can label in the subject line (probably the kindest way to
do it, especially for those list members on slow connections) or
put a note in the first line of your post that you're discussing
[Name of Zine] or [Story from Name of Zine]. You can also put in
spoiler space if you like, but it's not required.


Other Information:

A. What happens when someone violates a list rule?

That person's post may be the subject of an ADMIN post, the
person may be contacted about the violation offlist, the person
may be set on moderated status, or the admins may decide that
the provocation was sufficient.

Usually that last never comes into play unless the person is a
longtime listmember with a history of obeying the list rules but
violates one because of extreme circumstances.

B. What will get an ADMIN post?

When someone violates a list rule, they *usually*, though not
always, have done one of four things.

1. they have posted something off-topic without labelling it
such
2. they have made a personal attack in a way that warrants on-
list commentary from us
3. they are participating in a flamewar
4. they have made a personal attack in a way that does not
warrant on-list commentary from us.

Areas 1 through 3 are likely to get an ADMIN post.

Area 2 and Area 4 are where the interesting bits come in: what
warrants commentary? Generally, what is going to get an ADMIN
post falls into three areas:

1. a comment which is really incredibly nasty, such as implying
that someone is a rapist, murderer, pedophile, etc. based on
either their posts or their fiction
2. a comment made obliquely or that appears to be an attempt to
disguise an insult.
3. a comment not as nasty as A, but which the poster has a habit
of making, especially if they direct such attack against a
particular person repeatedly.

Anything outside of these three areas is unlikely to get an
ADMIN-post addressing it; usually, the poster just receives a
note off-list telling them what they did, and asking them not to
do it again.

The list moderators *do* try to keep the ADMIN'ing down, and
keeping some of it off-list helps with that. The list is fairly
volatile but not, generally speaking, unmanageable or prone to
spontaneous hostility; a great deal of comments in Area 4 are
just poor wording choices or heat-of-the-moment-thoughtlessness.

The list moderators try to apply these rules fairly; they'd like
their frequent opponents to be as comfortable here as their
frequent supporters.

C. What will get someone set on moderated status?

Moderated status is at the administrators' discretion.  Anything
that garners an ADMIN post can also get you moderated.  Repeated
and persistent disruption of the list can get you moderated.
Ignoring an admin post can get you moderated. Making the admins
lose sleep over your behavior can get you moderated.

It's not something we like to do, but we will if we have to.

D. What will get you banned?

Trying to get around moderated status by posting from another
account will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.  Making
death threats on-list will get you banned.  Engaging in
sockpuppetry will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.
Repeated and persistent disruption of the list can get you banned.
If we have to moderate you repeatedly, we may ban you to save
ourselves the headache of dealing with you.

Rules of the Game

1. Criticism.  Serious, not serious, sound drubbings, round
mockings, and utter gushing - all allowed.  No, really. Gen,
het, and slash discussion is permitted, and no character or
pairing is privileged or forbidden.

2. Purpose.  Contrary to what some people seem to believe, we
are not here to workshop writers.  There are other lists for
that.  Criticism is by readers, for readers; we don't care if
the author knows about the critique or not, and although we
certainly don't object to authorial participation, CritEdge is
not a forum for authors in terms of criticism.

It is a forum for authors in terms of research and resources.
Because HL canon theoretically encompasses all of history and a
cast of billions, discussions of history, culture, and fencing
are as on-topic as Whether Methos Really Only Drinks Beer
Onscreen (he doesn't).

3. The Mannerly Art of Critique. "The Mannerly Art of
Critique" is a document that has been around for quite some time
in the newsgroups the list moderators started reading and
critiquing fan fiction.

In general, it is an excellent guide for how to have critical
discussions without degenerating into personal attacks. It is
also a piece of material that the list moderators didn't want to
lift entire chunks from wholesale, nor did they want to rewrite
it; further, the entire document is phrased as suggestions, not
as hard-and-fast rules.  The list moderators *are* rewriting it
for this list, but it's a slow process.

To address a specific issue in the current form of the document:
"The Mannerly Art of Critique" contains the following:

"Only crit those who have INVITED crit, or who have given you
permission when you ask."

This is *not* policy on this list. The list moderators consider
the very act of having made a piece of fanfiction available as
both invitation and permission to critique; no specific
permission is necessary.

4. Post trimming.  Please cut out irrelevant things from your
responses. It's annoying to have to read through the entire
previous post (or more!) to get to whatever a new poster has to
say.  This is extra-courteous for those who are on digest, or
who have to pay for online time or by the amount downloaded.

5. Metadiscussion.  This is a big one.  Many lists ban it;
CriticalEdge does not.

What this means: you can talk about discussion - how to write
criticism, why to write criticism, whether you like the tone of
a particular piece of criticism.

What it doesn't mean is that it's a free-for-all.  It's not.
Personal attacks are off-limits; telling people they *cannot* or
*should not* criticize is not permitted.

"I don't like the tone of your critique" is fine.  "I don't
think you should write critique" is not.

6. No one except one of the list moderators has the right to
tell any members of the list to play nice. Even if you really
wish other members of the list would play nice--well, you can
*ask* them to play nice, but you're not going to get backup from
this quarter.

Basically, the rule here is "play as mean as you want, as long
as you don't make ad hominem attacks or threats." Think of it as
a rough soccer game. Violence allowed, but sportsmanship counts.

7. Sockpuppets and trolls.  Historically, we have a problem
with these.  (They are especially fond of emerging from the
woodwork when one or both of the list moderators are out of town
or otherwise unable to access their computers.)  Don't respond
to them.  If you respond and then realize they're a troll or
sockpuppet, don't keep responding.

What they want most is to cause a ruckus.  Don't let them.

8. Ad hominem (personal) attacks.  If you do this too much,
and the list moderators might ban you for being disruptive; you
will be warned and put on moderated status first should this
issue actually arise.

Calling anyone mean, or stupid, or fat - those are the obvious
types of personal attack.

Talking about who's in who else's kill file is a no-no.

Attributing a lack of intelligence, adulthood, tact, etc. to
particular individuals is a no-no.

Accusing list members of being puppeteers (the people behind a
sockpuppet) is a no-no.

Asking someone *directly*, in a response to a post they have
made, if they are a sockpuppet is allowed, as is asking them if
they are a puppeteer.  (You should be aware that such questions
often turn into flamewars.)

Saying things like "I *could* call you [insult], but I won't"
counts as saying that thing.

Heated discussion is fine. Arguments that result in lifelong
fannish enmity due to political positions on slash, gen, het, or
Joe's brand of hair gel are also fine. Attacking other people is
NOT fine.  Don't do it.

9. Threats.  These can get you banned from the list
immediately.  No pardon, no appeal. The list moderators don't
want to stop people from expressing themselves in a free &
raucous manner, but anything that might be construed as a threat
of violence has to be done (a) in a humorous manner *and* (b)
only to your closest friends. So if, for instance, Mary Ellen
says something outrageous, Laura can write: "OK, that's it, I'm
sending Caspian to your house for breakfast." and trust it will
be clear to all that no actual rancor is involved. If it might
not be clear to all that your threats are only in fun, DO NOT
POST. Specifically, do not post if you are making joking threats
to someone to whom you do not consider yourself close.

If you are actually close friends but the list has no reason to
know it, you need to say something like, "Speaking as one of
your close friends, I'll rip your head off with a spoon."

The list moderators have no wish to be as humorless as airport
security guards, but they have to take seriously-phrased threats
seriously.

10. Flamewars.  Don't participate.  They are no one's friend.

11. Real Person Fiction and MiSTs.

Discussion of Real Person Fic or ideas, like every other kind of
writing or ideas, is not out of bounds on CritEdge. Posters
should be aware that these are contentious issues and some
people may get upset. No topic will be ruled OT on the grounds
that it is upsetting.

Line-by-line critiques are permitted.  The list moderators
prefer other forms of criticism.  Out and out MiSTS (fiction
mocking the other story in a line-by-line way) are not; they are
fiction, not critique.

12. Zine Stories. On-topic. Go ahead and yammer away. Just make
sure to label the posts, so that those who don't have the zine
and don't want to be spoiled (or who *do* want to be spoiled)
can avoid (or gobble up) the posts.

You can label in the subject line (probably the kindest way to
do it, especially for those list members on slow connections) or
put a note in the first line of your post that you're discussing
[Name of Zine] or [Story from Name of Zine]. You can also put in
spoiler space if you like, but it's not required.


Other Information:

A. What happens when someone violates a list rule?

That person's post may be the subject of an ADMIN post, the
person may be contacted about the violation offlist, the person
may be set on moderated status, or the admins may decide that
the provocation was sufficient.

Usually that last never comes into play unless the person is a
longtime listmember with a history of obeying the list rules but
violates one because of extreme circumstances.

B. What will get an ADMIN post?

When someone violates a list rule, they *usually*, though not
always, have done one of four things.

1. they have posted something off-topic without labelling it
such
2. they have made a personal attack in a way that warrants on-
list commentary from us
3. they are participating in a flamewar
4. they have made a personal attack in a way that does not
warrant on-list commentary from us.

Areas 1 through 3 are likely to get an ADMIN post.

Area 2 and Area 4 are where the interesting bits come in: what
warrants commentary? Generally, what is going to get an ADMIN
post falls into three areas:

1. a comment which is really incredibly nasty, such as implying
that someone is a rapist, murderer, pedophile, etc. based on
either their posts or their fiction
2. a comment made obliquely or that appears to be an attempt to
disguise an insult.
3. a comment not as nasty as A, but which the poster has a habit
of making, especially if they direct such attack against a
particular person repeatedly.

Anything outside of these three areas is unlikely to get an
ADMIN-post addressing it; usually, the poster just receives a
note off-list telling them what they did, and asking them not to
do it again.

The list moderators *do* try to keep the ADMIN'ing down, and
keeping some of it off-list helps with that. The list is fairly
volatile but not, generally speaking, unmanageable or prone to
spontaneous hostility; a great deal of comments in Area 4 are
just poor wording choices or heat-of-the-moment-thoughtlessness.

The list moderators try to apply these rules fairly; they'd like
their frequent opponents to be as comfortable here as their
frequent supporters.

C. What will get someone set on moderated status?

Moderated status is at the administrators' discretion.  Anything
that garners an ADMIN post can also get you moderated.  Repeated
and persistent disruption of the list can get you moderated.
Ignoring an admin post can get you moderated. Making the admins
lose sleep over your behavior can get you moderated.

It's not something we like to do, but we will if we have to.

D. What will get you banned?

Trying to get around moderated status by posting from another
account will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.  Making
death threats on-list will get you banned.  Engaging in
sockpuppetry will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.
Repeated and persistent disruption of the list can get you banned.
If we have to moderate you repeatedly, we may ban you to save
ourselves the headache of dealing with you.

Rules of the Game

1. Criticism.  Serious, not serious, sound drubbings, round
mockings, and utter gushing - all allowed.  No, really. Gen,
het, and slash discussion is permitted, and no character or
pairing is privileged or forbidden.

2. Purpose.  Contrary to what some people seem to believe, we
are not here to workshop writers.  There are other lists for
that.  Criticism is by readers, for readers; we don't care if
the author knows about the critique or not, and although we
certainly don't object to authorial participation, CritEdge is
not a forum for authors in terms of criticism.

It is a forum for authors in terms of research and resources.
Because HL canon theoretically encompasses all of history and a
cast of billions, discussions of history, culture, and fencing
are as on-topic as Whether Methos Really Only Drinks Beer
Onscreen (he doesn't).

3. The Mannerly Art of Critique. "The Mannerly Art of
Critique" is a document that has been around for quite some time
in the newsgroups the list moderators started reading and
critiquing fan fiction.

In general, it is an excellent guide for how to have critical
discussions without degenerating into personal attacks. It is
also a piece of material that the list moderators didn't want to
lift entire chunks from wholesale, nor did they want to rewrite
it; further, the entire document is phrased as suggestions, not
as hard-and-fast rules.  The list moderators *are* rewriting it
for this list, but it's a slow process.

To address a specific issue in the current form of the document:
"The Mannerly Art of Critique" contains the following:

"Only crit those who have INVITED crit, or who have given you
permission when you ask."

This is *not* policy on this list. The list moderators consider
the very act of having made a piece of fanfiction available as
both invitation and permission to critique; no specific
permission is necessary.

4. Post trimming.  Please cut out irrelevant things from your
responses. It's annoying to have to read through the entire
previous post (or more!) to get to whatever a new poster has to
say.  This is extra-courteous for those who are on digest, or
who have to pay for online time or by the amount downloaded.

5. Metadiscussion.  This is a big one.  Many lists ban it;
CriticalEdge does not.

What this means: you can talk about discussion - how to write
criticism, why to write criticism, whether you like the tone of
a particular piece of criticism.

What it doesn't mean is that it's a free-for-all.  It's not.
Personal attacks are off-limits; telling people they *cannot* or
*should not* criticize is not permitted.

"I don't like the tone of your critique" is fine.  "I don't
think you should write critique" is not.

6. No one except one of the list moderators has the right to
tell any members of the list to play nice. Even if you really
wish other members of the list would play nice--well, you can
*ask* them to play nice, but you're not going to get backup from
this quarter.

Basically, the rule here is "play as mean as you want, as long
as you don't make ad hominem attacks or threats." Think of it as
a rough soccer game. Violence allowed, but sportsmanship counts.

7. Sockpuppets and trolls.  Historically, we have a problem
with these.  (They are especially fond of emerging from the
woodwork when one or both of the list moderators are out of town
or otherwise unable to access their computers.)  Don't respond
to them.  If you respond and then realize they're a troll or
sockpuppet, don't keep responding.

What they want most is to cause a ruckus.  Don't let them.

8. Ad hominem (personal) attacks.  If you do this too much,
and the list moderators might ban you for being disruptive; you
will be warned and put on moderated status first should this
issue actually arise.

Calling anyone mean, or stupid, or fat - those are the obvious
types of personal attack.

Talking about who's in who else's kill file is a no-no.

Attributing a lack of intelligence, adulthood, tact, etc. to
particular individuals is a no-no.

Accusing list members of being puppeteers (the people behind a
sockpuppet) is a no-no.

Asking someone *directly*, in a response to a post they have
made, if they are a sockpuppet is allowed, as is asking them if
they are a puppeteer.  (You should be aware that such questions
often turn into flamewars.)

Saying things like "I *could* call you [insult], but I won't"
counts as saying that thing.

Heated discussion is fine. Arguments that result in lifelong
fannish enmity due to political positions on slash, gen, het, or
Joe's brand of hair gel are also fine. Attacking other people is
NOT fine.  Don't do it.

9. Threats.  These can get you banned from the list
immediately.  No pardon, no appeal. The list moderators don't
want to stop people from expressing themselves in a free &
raucous manner, but anything that might be construed as a threat
of violence has to be done (a) in a humorous manner *and* (b)
only to your closest friends. So if, for instance, Mary Ellen
says something outrageous, Laura can write: "OK, that's it, I'm
sending Caspian to your house for breakfast." and trust it will
be clear to all that no actual rancor is involved. If it might
not be clear to all that your threats are only in fun, DO NOT
POST. Specifically, do not post if you are making joking threats
to someone to whom you do not consider yourself close.

If you are actually close friends but the list has no reason to
know it, you need to say something like, "Speaking as one of
your close friends, I'll rip your head off with a spoon."

The list moderators have no wish to be as humorless as airport
security guards, but they have to take seriously-phrased threats
seriously.

10. Flamewars.  Don't participate.  They are no one's friend.

11. Real Person Fiction and MiSTs.

Discussion of Real Person Fic or ideas, like every other kind of
writing or ideas, is not out of bounds on CritEdge. Posters
should be aware that these are contentious issues and some
people may get upset. No topic will be ruled OT on the grounds
that it is upsetting.

Line-by-line critiques are permitted.  The list moderators
prefer other forms of criticism.  Out and out MiSTS (fiction
mocking the other story in a line-by-line way) are not; they are
fiction, not critique.

12. Zine Stories. On-topic. Go ahead and yammer away. Just make
sure to label the posts, so that those who don't have the zine
and don't want to be spoiled (or who *do* want to be spoiled)
can avoid (or gobble up) the posts.

You can label in the subject line (probably the kindest way to
do it, especially for those list members on slow connections) or
put a note in the first line of your post that you're discussing
[Name of Zine] or [Story from Name of Zine]. You can also put in
spoiler space if you like, but it's not required.


Other Information:

A. What happens when someone violates a list rule?

That person's post may be the subject of an ADMIN post, the
person may be contacted about the violation offlist, the person
may be set on moderated status, or the admins may decide that
the provocation was sufficient.

Usually that last never comes into play unless the person is a
longtime listmember with a history of obeying the list rules but
violates one because of extreme circumstances.

B. What will get an ADMIN post?

When someone violates a list rule, they *usually*, though not
always, have done one of four things.

1. they have posted something off-topic without labelling it
such
2. they have made a personal attack in a way that warrants on-
list commentary from us
3. they are participating in a flamewar
4. they have made a personal attack in a way that does not
warrant on-list commentary from us.

Areas 1 through 3 are likely to get an ADMIN post.

Area 2 and Area 4 are where the interesting bits come in: what
warrants commentary? Generally, what is going to get an ADMIN
post falls into three areas:

1. a comment which is really incredibly nasty, such as implying
that someone is a rapist, murderer, pedophile, etc. based on
either their posts or their fiction
2. a comment made obliquely or that appears to be an attempt to
disguise an insult.
3. a comment not as nasty as A, but which the poster has a habit
of making, especially if they direct such attack against a
particular person repeatedly.

Anything outside of these three areas is unlikely to get an
ADMIN-post addressing it; usually, the poster just receives a
note off-list telling them what they did, and asking them not to
do it again.

The list moderators *do* try to keep the ADMIN'ing down, and
keeping some of it off-list helps with that. The list is fairly
volatile but not, generally speaking, unmanageable or prone to
spontaneous hostility; a great deal of comments in Area 4 are
just poor wording choices or heat-of-the-moment-thoughtlessness.

The list moderators try to apply these rules fairly; they'd like
their frequent opponents to be as comfortable here as their
frequent supporters.

C. What will get someone set on moderated status?

Moderated status is at the administrators' discretion.  Anything
that garners an ADMIN post can also get you moderated.  Repeated
and persistent disruption of the list can get you moderated.
Ignoring an admin post can get you moderated. Making the admins
lose sleep over your behavior can get you moderated.

It's not something we like to do, but we will if we have to.

D. What will get you banned?

Trying to get around moderated status by posting from another
account will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.  Making
death threats on-list will get you banned.  Engaging in
sockpuppetry will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.
Repeated and persistent disruption of the list can get you banned.
If we have to moderate you repeatedly, we may ban you to save
ourselves the headache of dealing with you.

Rules of the Game

1. Criticism.  Serious, not serious, sound drubbings, round
mockings, and utter gushing - all allowed.  No, really. Gen,
het, and slash discussion is permitted, and no character or
pairing is privileged or forbidden.

2. Purpose.  Contrary to what some people seem to believe, we
are not here to workshop writers.  There are other lists for
that.  Criticism is by readers, for readers; we don't care if
the author knows about the critique or not, and although we
certainly don't object to authorial participation, CritEdge is
not a forum for authors in terms of criticism.

It is a forum for authors in terms of research and resources.
Because HL canon theoretically encompasses all of history and a
cast of billions, discussions of history, culture, and fencing
are as on-topic as Whether Methos Really Only Drinks Beer
Onscreen (he doesn't).

3. The Mannerly Art of Critique. "The Mannerly Art of
Critique" is a document that has been around for quite some time
in the newsgroups the list moderators started reading and
critiquing fan fiction.

In general, it is an excellent guide for how to have critical
discussions without degenerating into personal attacks. It is
also a piece of material that the list moderators didn't want to
lift entire chunks from wholesale, nor did they want to rewrite
it; further, the entire document is phrased as suggestions, not
as hard-and-fast rules.  The list moderators *are* rewriting it
for this list, but it's a slow process.

To address a specific issue in the current form of the document:
"The Mannerly Art of Critique" contains the following:

"Only crit those who have INVITED crit, or who have given you
permission when you ask."

This is *not* policy on this list. The list moderators consider
the very act of having made a piece of fanfiction available as
both invitation and permission to critique; no specific
permission is necessary.

4. Post trimming.  Please cut out irrelevant things from your
responses. It's annoying to have to read through the entire
previous post (or more!) to get to whatever a new poster has to
say.  This is extra-courteous for those who are on digest, or
who have to pay for online time or by the amount downloaded.

5. Metadiscussion.  This is a big one.  Many lists ban it;
CriticalEdge does not.

What this means: you can talk about discussion - how to write
criticism, why to write criticism, whether you like the tone of
a particular piece of criticism.

What it doesn't mean is that it's a free-for-all.  It's not.
Personal attacks are off-limits; telling people they *cannot* or
*should not* criticize is not permitted.

"I don't like the tone of your critique" is fine.  "I don't
think you should write critique" is not.

6. No one except one of the list moderators has the right to
tell any members of the list to play nice. Even if you really
wish other members of the list would play nice--well, you can
*ask* them to play nice, but you're not going to get backup from
this quarter.

Basically, the rule here is "play as mean as you want, as long
as you don't make ad hominem attacks or threats." Think of it as
a rough soccer game. Violence allowed, but sportsmanship counts.

7. Sockpuppets and trolls.  Historically, we have a problem
with these.  (They are especially fond of emerging from the
woodwork when one or both of the list moderators are out of town
or otherwise unable to access their computers.)  Don't respond
to them.  If you respond and then realize they're a troll or
sockpuppet, don't keep responding.

What they want most is to cause a ruckus.  Don't let them.

8. Ad hominem (personal) attacks.  If you do this too much,
and the list moderators might ban you for being disruptive; you
will be warned and put on moderated status first should this
issue actually arise.

Calling anyone mean, or stupid, or fat - those are the obvious
types of personal attack.

Talking about who's in who else's kill file is a no-no.

Attributing a lack of intelligence, adulthood, tact, etc. to
particular individuals is a no-no.

Accusing list members of being puppeteers (the people behind a
sockpuppet) is a no-no.

Asking someone *directly*, in a response to a post they have
made, if they are a sockpuppet is allowed, as is asking them if
they are a puppeteer.  (You should be aware that such questions
often turn into flamewars.)

Saying things like "I *could* call you [insult], but I won't"
counts as saying that thing.

Heated discussion is fine. Arguments that result in lifelong
fannish enmity due to political positions on slash, gen, het, or
Joe's brand of hair gel are also fine. Attacking other people is
NOT fine.  Don't do it.

9. Threats.  These can get you banned from the list
immediately.  No pardon, no appeal. The list moderators don't
want to stop people from expressing themselves in a free &
raucous manner, but anything that might be construed as a threat
of violence has to be done (a) in a humorous manner *and* (b)
only to your closest friends. So if, for instance, Mary Ellen
says something outrageous, Laura can write: "OK, that's it, I'm
sending Caspian to your house for breakfast." and trust it will
be clear to all that no actual rancor is involved. If it might
not be clear to all that your threats are only in fun, DO NOT
POST. Specifically, do not post if you are making joking threats
to someone to whom you do not consider yourself close.

If you are actually close friends but the list has no reason to
know it, you need to say something like, "Speaking as one of
your close friends, I'll rip your head off with a spoon."

The list moderators have no wish to be as humorless as airport
security guards, but they have to take seriously-phrased threats
seriously.

10. Flamewars.  Don't participate.  They are no one's friend.

11. Real Person Fiction and MiSTs.

Discussion of Real Person Fic or ideas, like every other kind of
writing or ideas, is not out of bounds on CritEdge. Posters
should be aware that these are contentious issues and some
people may get upset. No topic will be ruled OT on the grounds
that it is upsetting.

Line-by-line critiques are permitted.  The list moderators
prefer other forms of criticism.  Out and out MiSTS (fiction
mocking the other story in a line-by-line way) are not; they are
fiction, not critique.

12. Zine Stories. On-topic. Go ahead and yammer away. Just make
sure to label the posts, so that those who don't have the zine
and don't want to be spoiled (or who *do* want to be spoiled)
can avoid (or gobble up) the posts.

You can label in the subject line (probably the kindest way to
do it, especially for those list members on slow connections) or
put a note in the first line of your post that you're discussing
[Name of Zine] or [Story from Name of Zine]. You can also put in
spoiler space if you like, but it's not required.


Other Information:

A. What happens when someone violates a list rule?

That person's post may be the subject of an ADMIN post, the
person may be contacted about the violation offlist, the person
may be set on moderated status, or the admins may decide that
the provocation was sufficient.

Usually that last never comes into play unless the person is a
longtime listmember with a history of obeying the list rules but
violates one because of extreme circumstances.

B. What will get an ADMIN post?

When someone violates a list rule, they *usually*, though not
always, have done one of four things.

1. they have posted something off-topic without labelling it
such
2. they have made a personal attack in a way that warrants on-
list commentary from us
3. they are participating in a flamewar
4. they have made a personal attack in a way that does not
warrant on-list commentary from us.

Areas 1 through 3 are likely to get an ADMIN post.

Area 2 and Area 4 are where the interesting bits come in: what
warrants commentary? Generally, what is going to get an ADMIN
post falls into three areas:

1. a comment which is really incredibly nasty, such as implying
that someone is a rapist, murderer, pedophile, etc. based on
either their posts or their fiction
2. a comment made obliquely or that appears to be an attempt to
disguise an insult.
3. a comment not as nasty as A, but which the poster has a habit
of making, especially if they direct such attack against a
particular person repeatedly.

Anything outside of these three areas is unlikely to get an
ADMIN-post addressing it; usually, the poster just receives a
note off-list telling them what they did, and asking them not to
do it again.

The list moderators *do* try to keep the ADMIN'ing down, and
keeping some of it off-list helps with that. The list is fairly
volatile but not, generally speaking, unmanageable or prone to
spontaneous hostility; a great deal of comments in Area 4 are
just poor wording choices or heat-of-the-moment-thoughtlessness.

The list moderators try to apply these rules fairly; they'd like
their frequent opponents to be as comfortable here as their
frequent supporters.

C. What will get someone set on moderated status?

Moderated status is at the administrators' discretion.  Anything
that garners an ADMIN post can also get you moderated.  Repeated
and persistent disruption of the list can get you moderated.
Ignoring an admin post can get you moderated. Making the admins
lose sleep over your behavior can get you moderated.

It's not something we like to do, but we will if we have to.

D. What will get you banned?

Trying to get around moderated status by posting from another
account will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.  Making
death threats on-list will get you banned.  Engaging in
sockpuppetry will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.
Repeated and persistent disruption of the list can get you banned.
If we have to moderate you repeatedly, we may ban you to save
ourselves the headache of dealing with you.

Rules of the Game

1. Criticism.  Serious, not serious, sound drubbings, round
mockings, and utter gushing - all allowed.  No, really. Gen,
het, and slash discussion is permitted, and no character or
pairing is privileged or forbidden.

2. Purpose.  Contrary to what some people seem to believe, we
are not here to workshop writers.  There are other lists for
that.  Criticism is by readers, for readers; we don't care if
the author knows about the critique or not, and although we
certainly don't object to authorial participation, CritEdge is
not a forum for authors in terms of criticism.

It is a forum for authors in terms of research and resources.
Because HL canon theoretically encompasses all of history and a
cast of billions, discussions of history, culture, and fencing
are as on-topic as Whether Methos Really Only Drinks Beer
Onscreen (he doesn't).

3. The Mannerly Art of Critique. "The Mannerly Art of
Critique" is a document that has been around for quite some time
in the newsgroups the list moderators started reading and
critiquing fan fiction.

In general, it is an excellent guide for how to have critical
discussions without degenerating into personal attacks. It is
also a piece of material that the list moderators didn't want to
lift entire chunks from wholesale, nor did they want to rewrite
it; further, the entire document is phrased as suggestions, not
as hard-and-fast rules.  The list moderators *are* rewriting it
for this list, but it's a slow process.

To address a specific issue in the current form of the document:
"The Mannerly Art of Critique" contains the following:

"Only crit those who have INVITED crit, or who have given you
permission when you ask."

This is *not* policy on this list. The list moderators consider
the very act of having made a piece of fanfiction available as
both invitation and permission to critique; no specific
permission is necessary.

4. Post trimming.  Please cut out irrelevant things from your
responses. It's annoying to have to read through the entire
previous post (or more!) to get to whatever a new poster has to
say.  This is extra-courteous for those who are on digest, or
who have to pay for online time or by the amount downloaded.

5. Metadiscussion.  This is a big one.  Many lists ban it;
CriticalEdge does not.

What this means: you can talk about discussion - how to write
criticism, why to write criticism, whether you like the tone of
a particular piece of criticism.

What it doesn't mean is that it's a free-for-all.  It's not.
Personal attacks are off-limits; telling people they *cannot* or
*should not* criticize is not permitted.

"I don't like the tone of your critique" is fine.  "I don't
think you should write critique" is not.

6. No one except one of the list moderators has the right to
tell any members of the list to play nice. Even if you really
wish other members of the list would play nice--well, you can
*ask* them to play nice, but you're not going to get backup from
this quarter.

Basically, the rule here is "play as mean as you want, as long
as you don't make ad hominem attacks or threats." Think of it as
a rough soccer game. Violence allowed, but sportsmanship counts.

7. Sockpuppets and trolls.  Historically, we have a problem
with these.  (They are especially fond of emerging from the
woodwork when one or both of the list moderators are out of town
or otherwise unable to access their computers.)  Don't respond
to them.  If you respond and then realize they're a troll or
sockpuppet, don't keep responding.

What they want most is to cause a ruckus.  Don't let them.

8. Ad hominem (personal) attacks.  If you do this too much,
and the list moderators might ban you for being disruptive; you
will be warned and put on moderated status first should this
issue actually arise.

Calling anyone mean, or stupid, or fat - those are the obvious
types of personal attack.

Talking about who's in who else's kill file is a no-no.

Attributing a lack of intelligence, adulthood, tact, etc. to
particular individuals is a no-no.

Accusing list members of being puppeteers (the people behind a
sockpuppet) is a no-no.

Asking someone *directly*, in a response to a post they have
made, if they are a sockpuppet is allowed, as is asking them if
they are a puppeteer.  (You should be aware that such questions
often turn into flamewars.)

Saying things like "I *could* call you [insult], but I won't"
counts as saying that thing.

Heated discussion is fine. Arguments that result in lifelong
fannish enmity due to political positions on slash, gen, het, or
Joe's brand of hair gel are also fine. Attacking other people is
NOT fine.  Don't do it.

9. Threats.  These can get you banned from the list
immediately.  No pardon, no appeal. The list moderators don't
want to stop people from expressing themselves in a free &
raucous manner, but anything that might be construed as a threat
of violence has to be done (a) in a humorous manner *and* (b)
only to your closest friends. So if, for instance, Mary Ellen
says something outrageous, Laura can write: "OK, that's it, I'm
sending Caspian to your house for breakfast." and trust it will
be clear to all that no actual rancor is involved. If it might
not be clear to all that your threats are only in fun, DO NOT
POST. Specifically, do not post if you are making joking threats
to someone to whom you do not consider yourself close.

If you are actually close friends but the list has no reason to
know it, you need to say something like, "Speaking as one of
your close friends, I'll rip your head off with a spoon."

The list moderators have no wish to be as humorless as airport
security guards, but they have to take seriously-phrased threats
seriously.

10. Flamewars.  Don't participate.  They are no one's friend.

11. Real Person Fiction and MiSTs.

Discussion of Real Person Fic or ideas, like every other kind of
writing or ideas, is not out of bounds on CritEdge. Posters
should be aware that these are contentious issues and some
people may get upset. No topic will be ruled OT on the grounds
that it is upsetting.

Line-by-line critiques are permitted.  The list moderators
prefer other forms of criticism.  Out and out MiSTS (fiction
mocking the other story in a line-by-line way) are not; they are
fiction, not critique.

12. Zine Stories. On-topic. Go ahead and yammer away. Just make
sure to label the posts, so that those who don't have the zine
and don't want to be spoiled (or who *do* want to be spoiled)
can avoid (or gobble up) the posts.

You can label in the subject line (probably the kindest way to
do it, especially for those list members on slow connections) or
put a note in the first line of your post that you're discussing
[Name of Zine] or [Story from Name of Zine]. You can also put in
spoiler space if you like, but it's not required.


Other Information:

A. What happens when someone violates a list rule?

That person's post may be the subject of an ADMIN post, the
person may be contacted about the violation offlist, the person
may be set on moderated status, or the admins may decide that
the provocation was sufficient.

Usually that last never comes into play unless the person is a
longtime listmember with a history of obeying the list rules but
violates one because of extreme circumstances.

B. What will get an ADMIN post?

When someone violates a list rule, they *usually*, though not
always, have done one of four things.

1. they have posted something off-topic without labelling it
such
2. they have made a personal attack in a way that warrants on-
list commentary from us
3. they are participating in a flamewar
4. they have made a personal attack in a way that does not
warrant on-list commentary from us.

Areas 1 through 3 are likely to get an ADMIN post.

Area 2 and Area 4 are where the interesting bits come in: what
warrants commentary? Generally, what is going to get an ADMIN
post falls into three areas:

1. a comment which is really incredibly nasty, such as implying
that someone is a rapist, murderer, pedophile, etc. based on
either their posts or their fiction
2. a comment made obliquely or that appears to be an attempt to
disguise an insult.
3. a comment not as nasty as A, but which the poster has a habit
of making, especially if they direct such attack against a
particular person repeatedly.

Anything outside of these three areas is unlikely to get an
ADMIN-post addressing it; usually, the poster just receives a
note off-list telling them what they did, and asking them not to
do it again.

The list moderators *do* try to keep the ADMIN'ing down, and
keeping some of it off-list helps with that. The list is fairly
volatile but not, generally speaking, unmanageable or prone to
spontaneous hostility; a great deal of comments in Area 4 are
just poor wording choices or heat-of-the-moment-thoughtlessness.

The list moderators try to apply these rules fairly; they'd like
their frequent opponents to be as comfortable here as their
frequent supporters.

C. What will get someone set on moderated status?

Moderated status is at the administrators' discretion.  Anything
that garners an ADMIN post can also get you moderated.  Repeated
and persistent disruption of the list can get you moderated.
Ignoring an admin post can get you moderated. Making the admins
lose sleep over your behavior can get you moderated.

It's not something we like to do, but we will if we have to.

D. What will get you banned?

Trying to get around moderated status by posting from another
account will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.  Making
death threats on-list will get you banned.  Engaging in
sockpuppetry will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.
Repeated and persistent disruption of the list can get you banned.
If we have to moderate you repeatedly, we may ban you to save
ourselves the headache of dealing with you.

Rules of the Game

1. Criticism.  Serious, not serious, sound drubbings, round
mockings, and utter gushing - all allowed.  No, really. Gen,
het, and slash discussion is permitted, and no character or
pairing is privileged or forbidden.

2. Purpose.  Contrary to what some people seem to believe, we
are not here to workshop writers.  There are other lists for
that.  Criticism is by readers, for readers; we don't care if
the author knows about the critique or not, and although we
certainly don't object to authorial participation, CritEdge is
not a forum for authors in terms of criticism.

It is a forum for authors in terms of research and resources.
Because HL canon theoretically encompasses all of history and a
cast of billions, discussions of history, culture, and fencing
are as on-topic as Whether Methos Really Only Drinks Beer
Onscreen (he doesn't).

3. The Mannerly Art of Critique. "The Mannerly Art of
Critique" is a document that has been around for quite some time
in the newsgroups the list moderators started reading and
critiquing fan fiction.

In general, it is an excellent guide for how to have critical
discussions without degenerating into personal attacks. It is
also a piece of material that the list moderators didn't want to
lift entire chunks from wholesale, nor did they want to rewrite
it; further, the entire document is phrased as suggestions, not
as hard-and-fast rules.  The list moderators *are* rewriting it
for this list, but it's a slow process.

To address a specific issue in the current form of the document:
"The Mannerly Art of Critique" contains the following:

"Only crit those who have INVITED crit, or who have given you
permission when you ask."

This is *not* policy on this list. The list moderators consider
the very act of having made a piece of fanfiction available as
both invitation and permission to critique; no specific
permission is necessary.

4. Post trimming.  Please cut out irrelevant things from your
responses. It's annoying to have to read through the entire
previous post (or more!) to get to whatever a new poster has to
say.  This is extra-courteous for those who are on digest, or
who have to pay for online time or by the amount downloaded.

5. Metadiscussion.  This is a big one.  Many lists ban it;
CriticalEdge does not.

What this means: you can talk about discussion - how to write
criticism, why to write criticism, whether you like the tone of
a particular piece of criticism.

What it doesn't mean is that it's a free-for-all.  It's not.
Personal attacks are off-limits; telling people they *cannot* or
*should not* criticize is not permitted.

"I don't like the tone of your critique" is fine.  "I don't
think you should write critique" is not.

6. No one except one of the list moderators has the right to
tell any members of the list to play nice. Even if you really
wish other members of the list would play nice--well, you can
*ask* them to play nice, but you're not going to get backup from
this quarter.

Basically, the rule here is "play as mean as you want, as long
as you don't make ad hominem attacks or threats." Think of it as
a rough soccer game. Violence allowed, but sportsmanship counts.

7. Sockpuppets and trolls.  Historically, we have a problem
with these.  (They are especially fond of emerging from the
woodwork when one or both of the list moderators are out of town
or otherwise unable to access their computers.)  Don't respond
to them.  If you respond and then realize they're a troll or
sockpuppet, don't keep responding.

What they want most is to cause a ruckus.  Don't let them.

8. Ad hominem (personal) attacks.  If you do this too much,
and the list moderators might ban you for being disruptive; you
will be warned and put on moderated status first should this
issue actually arise.

Calling anyone mean, or stupid, or fat - those are the obvious
types of personal attack.

Talking about who's in who else's kill file is a no-no.

Attributing a lack of intelligence, adulthood, tact, etc. to
particular individuals is a no-no.

Accusing list members of being puppeteers (the people behind a
sockpuppet) is a no-no.

Asking someone *directly*, in a response to a post they have
made, if they are a sockpuppet is allowed, as is asking them if
they are a puppeteer.  (You should be aware that such questions
often turn into flamewars.)

Saying things like "I *could* call you [insult], but I won't"
counts as saying that thing.

Heated discussion is fine. Arguments that result in lifelong
fannish enmity due to political positions on slash, gen, het, or
Joe's brand of hair gel are also fine. Attacking other people is
NOT fine.  Don't do it.

9. Threats.  These can get you banned from the list
immediately.  No pardon, no appeal. The list moderators don't
want to stop people from expressing themselves in a free &
raucous manner, but anything that might be construed as a threat
of violence has to be done (a) in a humorous manner *and* (b)
only to your closest friends. So if, for instance, Mary Ellen
says something outrageous, Laura can write: "OK, that's it, I'm
sending Caspian to your house for breakfast." and trust it will
be clear to all that no actual rancor is involved. If it might
not be clear to all that your threats are only in fun, DO NOT
POST. Specifically, do not post if you are making joking threats
to someone to whom you do not consider yourself close.

If you are actually close friends but the list has no reason to
know it, you need to say something like, "Speaking as one of
your close friends, I'll rip your head off with a spoon."

The list moderators have no wish to be as humorless as airport
security guards, but they have to take seriously-phrased threats
seriously.

10. Flamewars.  Don't participate.  They are no one's friend.

11. Real Person Fiction and MiSTs.

Discussion of Real Person Fic or ideas, like every other kind of
writing or ideas, is not out of bounds on CritEdge. Posters
should be aware that these are contentious issues and some
people may get upset. No topic will be ruled OT on the grounds
that it is upsetting.

Line-by-line critiques are permitted.  The list moderators
prefer other forms of criticism.  Out and out MiSTS (fiction
mocking the other story in a line-by-line way) are not; they are
fiction, not critique.

12. Zine Stories. On-topic. Go ahead and yammer away. Just make
sure to label the posts, so that those who don't have the zine
and don't want to be spoiled (or who *do* want to be spoiled)
can avoid (or gobble up) the posts.

You can label in the subject line (probably the kindest way to
do it, especially for those list members on slow connections) or
put a note in the first line of your post that you're discussing
[Name of Zine] or [Story from Name of Zine]. You can also put in
spoiler space if you like, but it's not required.


Other Information:

A. What happens when someone violates a list rule?

That person's post may be the subject of an ADMIN post, the
person may be contacted about the violation offlist, the person
may be set on moderated status, or the admins may decide that
the provocation was sufficient.

Usually that last never comes into play unless the person is a
longtime listmember with a history of obeying the list rules but
violates one because of extreme circumstances.

B. What will get an ADMIN post?

When someone violates a list rule, they *usually*, though not
always, have done one of four things.

1. they have posted something off-topic without labelling it
such
2. they have made a personal attack in a way that warrants on-
list commentary from us
3. they are participating in a flamewar
4. they have made a personal attack in a way that does not
warrant on-list commentary from us.

Areas 1 through 3 are likely to get an ADMIN post.

Area 2 and Area 4 are where the interesting bits come in: what
warrants commentary? Generally, what is going to get an ADMIN
post falls into three areas:

1. a comment which is really incredibly nasty, such as implying
that someone is a rapist, murderer, pedophile, etc. based on
either their posts or their fiction
2. a comment made obliquely or that appears to be an attempt to
disguise an insult.
3. a comment not as nasty as A, but which the poster has a habit
of making, especially if they direct such attack against a
particular person repeatedly.

Anything outside of these three areas is unlikely to get an
ADMIN-post addressing it; usually, the poster just receives a
note off-list telling them what they did, and asking them not to
do it again.

The list moderators *do* try to keep the ADMIN'ing down, and
keeping some of it off-list helps with that. The list is fairly
volatile but not, generally speaking, unmanageable or prone to
spontaneous hostility; a great deal of comments in Area 4 are
just poor wording choices or heat-of-the-moment-thoughtlessness.

The list moderators try to apply these rules fairly; they'd like
their frequent opponents to be as comfortable here as their
frequent supporters.

C. What will get someone set on moderated status?

Moderated status is at the administrators' discretion.  Anything
that garners an ADMIN post can also get you moderated.  Repeated
and persistent disruption of the list can get you moderated.
Ignoring an admin post can get you moderated. Making the admins
lose sleep over your behavior can get you moderated.

It's not something we like to do, but we will if we have to.

D. What will get you banned?

Trying to get around moderated status by posting from another
account will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.  Making
death threats on-list will get you banned.  Engaging in
sockpuppetry will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.
Repeated and persistent disruption of the list can get you banned.
If we have to moderate you repeatedly, we may ban you to save
ourselves the headache of dealing with you.

Rules of the Game

1. Criticism.  Serious, not serious, sound drubbings, round
mockings, and utter gushing - all allowed.  No, really. Gen,
het, and slash discussion is permitted, and no character or
pairing is privileged or forbidden.

2. Purpose.  Contrary to what some people seem to believe, we
are not here to workshop writers.  There are other lists for
that.  Criticism is by readers, for readers; we don't care if
the author knows about the critique or not, and although we
certainly don't object to authorial participation, CritEdge is
not a forum for authors in terms of criticism.

It is a forum for authors in terms of research and resources.
Because HL canon theoretically encompasses all of history and a
cast of billions, discussions of history, culture, and fencing
are as on-topic as Whether Methos Really Only Drinks Beer
Onscreen (he doesn't).

3. The Mannerly Art of Critique. "The Mannerly Art of
Critique" is a document that has been around for quite some time
in the newsgroups the list moderators started reading and
critiquing fan fiction.

In general, it is an excellent guide for how to have critical
discussions without degenerating into personal attacks. It is
also a piece of material that the list moderators didn't want to
lift entire chunks from wholesale, nor did they want to rewrite
it; further, the entire document is phrased as suggestions, not
as hard-and-fast rules.  The list moderators *are* rewriting it
for this list, but it's a slow process.

To address a specific issue in the current form of the document:
"The Mannerly Art of Critique" contains the following:

"Only crit those who have INVITED crit, or who have given you
permission when you ask."

This is *not* policy on this list. The list moderators consider
the very act of having made a piece of fanfiction available as
both invitation and permission to critique; no specific
permission is necessary.

4. Post trimming.  Please cut out irrelevant things from your
responses. It's annoying to have to read through the entire
previous post (or more!) to get to whatever a new poster has to
say.  This is extra-courteous for those who are on digest, or
who have to pay for online time or by the amount downloaded.

5. Metadiscussion.  This is a big one.  Many lists ban it;
CriticalEdge does not.

What this means: you can talk about discussion - how to write
criticism, why to write criticism, whether you like the tone of
a particular piece of criticism.

What it doesn't mean is that it's a free-for-all.  It's not.
Personal attacks are off-limits; telling people they *cannot* or
*should not* criticize is not permitted.

"I don't like the tone of your critique" is fine.  "I don't
think you should write critique" is not.

6. No one except one of the list moderators has the right to
tell any members of the list to play nice. Even if you really
wish other members of the list would play nice--well, you can
*ask* them to play nice, but you're not going to get backup from
this quarter.

Basically, the rule here is "play as mean as you want, as long
as you don't make ad hominem attacks or threats." Think of it as
a rough soccer game. Violence allowed, but sportsmanship counts.

7. Sockpuppets and trolls.  Historically, we have a problem
with these.  (They are especially fond of emerging from the
woodwork when one or both of the list moderators are out of town
or otherwise unable to access their computers.)  Don't respond
to them.  If you respond and then realize they're a troll or
sockpuppet, don't keep responding.

What they want most is to cause a ruckus.  Don't let them.

8. Ad hominem (personal) attacks.  If you do this too much,
and the list moderators might ban you for being disruptive; you
will be warned and put on moderated status first should this
issue actually arise.

Calling anyone mean, or stupid, or fat - those are the obvious
types of personal attack.

Talking about who's in who else's kill file is a no-no.

Attributing a lack of intelligence, adulthood, tact, etc. to
particular individuals is a no-no.

Accusing list members of being puppeteers (the people behind a
sockpuppet) is a no-no.

Asking someone *directly*, in a response to a post they have
made, if they are a sockpuppet is allowed, as is asking them if
they are a puppeteer.  (You should be aware that such questions
often turn into flamewars.)

Saying things like "I *could* call you [insult], but I won't"
counts as saying that thing.

Heated discussion is fine. Arguments that result in lifelong
fannish enmity due to political positions on slash, gen, het, or
Joe's brand of hair gel are also fine. Attacking other people is
NOT fine.  Don't do it.

9. Threats.  These can get you banned from the list
immediately.  No pardon, no appeal. The list moderators don't
want to stop people from expressing themselves in a free &
raucous manner, but anything that might be construed as a threat
of violence has to be done (a) in a humorous manner *and* (b)
only to your closest friends. So if, for instance, Mary Ellen
says something outrageous, Laura can write: "OK, that's it, I'm
sending Caspian to your house for breakfast." and trust it will
be clear to all that no actual rancor is involved. If it might
not be clear to all that your threats are only in fun, DO NOT
POST. Specifically, do not post if you are making joking threats
to someone to whom you do not consider yourself close.

If you are actually close friends but the list has no reason to
know it, you need to say something like, "Speaking as one of
your close friends, I'll rip your head off with a spoon."

The list moderators have no wish to be as humorless as airport
security guards, but they have to take seriously-phrased threats
seriously.

10. Flamewars.  Don't participate.  They are no one's friend.

11. Real Person Fiction and MiSTs.

Discussion of Real Person Fic or ideas, like every other kind of
writing or ideas, is not out of bounds on CritEdge. Posters
should be aware that these are contentious issues and some
people may get upset. No topic will be ruled OT on the grounds
that it is upsetting.

Line-by-line critiques are permitted.  The list moderators
prefer other forms of criticism.  Out and out MiSTS (fiction
mocking the other story in a line-by-line way) are not; they are
fiction, not critique.

12. Zine Stories. On-topic. Go ahead and yammer away. Just make
sure to label the posts, so that those who don't have the zine
and don't want to be spoiled (or who *do* want to be spoiled)
can avoid (or gobble up) the posts.

You can label in the subject line (probably the kindest way to
do it, especially for those list members on slow connections) or
put a note in the first line of your post that you're discussing
[Name of Zine] or [Story from Name of Zine]. You can also put in
spoiler space if you like, but it's not required.


Other Information:

A. What happens when someone violates a list rule?

That person's post may be the subject of an ADMIN post, the
person may be contacted about the violation offlist, the person
may be set on moderated status, or the admins may decide that
the provocation was sufficient.

Usually that last never comes into play unless the person is a
longtime listmember with a history of obeying the list rules but
violates one because of extreme circumstances.

B. What will get an ADMIN post?

When someone violates a list rule, they *usually*, though not
always, have done one of four things.

1. they have posted something off-topic without labelling it
such
2. they have made a personal attack in a way that warrants on-
list commentary from us
3. they are participating in a flamewar
4. they have made a personal attack in a way that does not
warrant on-list commentary from us.

Areas 1 through 3 are likely to get an ADMIN post.

Area 2 and Area 4 are where the interesting bits come in: what
warrants commentary? Generally, what is going to get an ADMIN
post falls into three areas:

1. a comment which is really incredibly nasty, such as implying
that someone is a rapist, murderer, pedophile, etc. based on
either their posts or their fiction
2. a comment made obliquely or that appears to be an attempt to
disguise an insult.
3. a comment not as nasty as A, but which the poster has a habit
of making, especially if they direct such attack against a
particular person repeatedly.

Anything outside of these three areas is unlikely to get an
ADMIN-post addressing it; usually, the poster just receives a
note off-list telling them what they did, and asking them not to
do it again.

The list moderators *do* try to keep the ADMIN'ing down, and
keeping some of it off-list helps with that. The list is fairly
volatile but not, generally speaking, unmanageable or prone to
spontaneous hostility; a great deal of comments in Area 4 are
just poor wording choices or heat-of-the-moment-thoughtlessness.

The list moderators try to apply these rules fairly; they'd like
their frequent opponents to be as comfortable here as their
frequent supporters.

C. What will get someone set on moderated status?

Moderated status is at the administrators' discretion.  Anything
that garners an ADMIN post can also get you moderated.  Repeated
and persistent disruption of the list can get you moderated.
Ignoring an admin post can get you moderated. Making the admins
lose sleep over your behavior can get you moderated.

It's not something we like to do, but we will if we have to.

D. What will get you banned?

Trying to get around moderated status by posting from another
account will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.  Making
death threats on-list will get you banned.  Engaging in
sockpuppetry will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.
Repeated and persistent disruption of the list can get you banned.
If we have to moderate you repeatedly, we may ban you to save
ourselves the headache of dealing with you.

Rules of the Game

1. Criticism.  Serious, not serious, sound drubbings, round
mockings, and utter gushing - all allowed.  No, really. Gen,
het, and slash discussion is permitted, and no character or
pairing is privileged or forbidden.

2. Purpose.  Contrary to what some people seem to believe, we
are not here to workshop writers.  There are other lists for
that.  Criticism is by readers, for readers; we don't care if
the author knows about the critique or not, and although we
certainly don't object to authorial participation, CritEdge is
not a forum for authors in terms of criticism.

It is a forum for authors in terms of research and resources.
Because HL canon theoretically encompasses all of history and a
cast of billions, discussions of history, culture, and fencing
are as on-topic as Whether Methos Really Only Drinks Beer
Onscreen (he doesn't).

3. The Mannerly Art of Critique. "The Mannerly Art of
Critique" is a document that has been around for quite some time
in the newsgroups the list moderators started reading and
critiquing fan fiction.

In general, it is an excellent guide for how to have critical
discussions without degenerating into personal attacks. It is
also a piece of material that the list moderators didn't want to
lift entire chunks from wholesale, nor did they want to rewrite
it; further, the entire document is phrased as suggestions, not
as hard-and-fast rules.  The list moderators *are* rewriting it
for this list, but it's a slow process.

To address a specific issue in the current form of the document:
"The Mannerly Art of Critique" contains the following:

"Only crit those who have INVITED crit, or who have given you
permission when you ask."

This is *not* policy on this list. The list moderators consider
the very act of having made a piece of fanfiction available as
both invitation and permission to critique; no specific
permission is necessary.

4. Post trimming.  Please cut out irrelevant things from your
responses. It's annoying to have to read through the entire
previous post (or more!) to get to whatever a new poster has to
say.  This is extra-courteous for those who are on digest, or
who have to pay for online time or by the amount downloaded.

5. Metadiscussion.  This is a big one.  Many lists ban it;
CriticalEdge does not.

What this means: you can talk about discussion - how to write
criticism, why to write criticism, whether you like the tone of
a particular piece of criticism.

What it doesn't mean is that it's a free-for-all.  It's not.
Personal attacks are off-limits; telling people they *cannot* or
*should not* criticize is not permitted.

"I don't like the tone of your critique" is fine.  "I don't
think you should write critique" is not.

6. No one except one of the list moderators has the right to
tell any members of the list to play nice. Even if you really
wish other members of the list would play nice--well, you can
*ask* them to play nice, but you're not going to get backup from
this quarter.

Basically, the rule here is "play as mean as you want, as long
as you don't make ad hominem attacks or threats." Think of it as
a rough soccer game. Violence allowed, but sportsmanship counts.

7. Sockpuppets and trolls.  Historically, we have a problem
with these.  (They are especially fond of emerging from the
woodwork when one or both of the list moderators are out of town
or otherwise unable to access their computers.)  Don't respond
to them.  If you respond and then realize they're a troll or
sockpuppet, don't keep responding.

What they want most is to cause a ruckus.  Don't let them.

8. Ad hominem (personal) attacks.  If you do this too much,
and the list moderators might ban you for being disruptive; you
will be warned and put on moderated status first should this
issue actually arise.

Calling anyone mean, or stupid, or fat - those are the obvious
types of personal attack.

Talking about who's in who else's kill file is a no-no.

Attributing a lack of intelligence, adulthood, tact, etc. to
particular individuals is a no-no.

Accusing list members of being puppeteers (the people behind a
sockpuppet) is a no-no.

Asking someone *directly*, in a response to a post they have
made, if they are a sockpuppet is allowed, as is asking them if
they are a puppeteer.  (You should be aware that such questions
often turn into flamewars.)

Saying things like "I *could* call you [insult], but I won't"
counts as saying that thing.

Heated discussion is fine. Arguments that result in lifelong
fannish enmity due to political positions on slash, gen, het, or
Joe's brand of hair gel are also fine. Attacking other people is
NOT fine.  Don't do it.

9. Threats.  These can get you banned from the list
immediately.  No pardon, no appeal. The list moderators don't
want to stop people from expressing themselves in a free &
raucous manner, but anything that might be construed as a threat
of violence has to be done (a) in a humorous manner *and* (b)
only to your closest friends. So if, for instance, Mary Ellen
says something outrageous, Laura can write: "OK, that's it, I'm
sending Caspian to your house for breakfast." and trust it will
be clear to all that no actual rancor is involved. If it might
not be clear to all that your threats are only in fun, DO NOT
POST. Specifically, do not post if you are making joking threats
to someone to whom you do not consider yourself close.

If you are actually close friends but the list has no reason to
know it, you need to say something like, "Speaking as one of
your close friends, I'll rip your head off with a spoon."

The list moderators have no wish to be as humorless as airport
security guards, but they have to take seriously-phrased threats
seriously.

10. Flamewars.  Don't participate.  They are no one's friend.

11. Real Person Fiction and MiSTs.

Discussion of Real Person Fic or ideas, like every other kind of
writing or ideas, is not out of bounds on CritEdge. Posters
should be aware that these are contentious issues and some
people may get upset. No topic will be ruled OT on the grounds
that it is upsetting.

Line-by-line critiques are permitted.  The list moderators
prefer other forms of criticism.  Out and out MiSTS (fiction
mocking the other story in a line-by-line way) are not; they are
fiction, not critique.

12. Zine Stories. On-topic. Go ahead and yammer away. Just make
sure to label the posts, so that those who don't have the zine
and don't want to be spoiled (or who *do* want to be spoiled)
can avoid (or gobble up) the posts.

You can label in the subject line (probably the kindest way to
do it, especially for those list members on slow connections) or
put a note in the first line of your post that you're discussing
[Name of Zine] or [Story from Name of Zine]. You can also put in
spoiler space if you like, but it's not required.


Other Information:

A. What happens when someone violates a list rule?

That person's post may be the subject of an ADMIN post, the
person may be contacted about the violation offlist, the person
may be set on moderated status, or the admins may decide that
the provocation was sufficient.

Usually that last never comes into play unless the person is a
longtime listmember with a history of obeying the list rules but
violates one because of extreme circumstances.

B. What will get an ADMIN post?

When someone violates a list rule, they *usually*, though not
always, have done one of four things.

1. they have posted something off-topic without labelling it
such
2. they have made a personal attack in a way that warrants on-
list commentary from us
3. they are participating in a flamewar
4. they have made a personal attack in a way that does not
warrant on-list commentary from us.

Areas 1 through 3 are likely to get an ADMIN post.

Area 2 and Area 4 are where the interesting bits come in: what
warrants commentary? Generally, what is going to get an ADMIN
post falls into three areas:

1. a comment which is really incredibly nasty, such as implying
that someone is a rapist, murderer, pedophile, etc. based on
either their posts or their fiction
2. a comment made obliquely or that appears to be an attempt to
disguise an insult.
3. a comment not as nasty as A, but which the poster has a habit
of making, especially if they direct such attack against a
particular person repeatedly.

Anything outside of these three areas is unlikely to get an
ADMIN-post addressing it; usually, the poster just receives a
note off-list telling them what they did, and asking them not to
do it again.

The list moderators *do* try to keep the ADMIN'ing down, and
keeping some of it off-list helps with that. The list is fairly
volatile but not, generally speaking, unmanageable or prone to
spontaneous hostility; a great deal of comments in Area 4 are
just poor wording choices or heat-of-the-moment-thoughtlessness.

The list moderators try to apply these rules fairly; they'd like
their frequent opponents to be as comfortable here as their
frequent supporters.

C. What will get someone set on moderated status?

Moderated status is at the administrators' discretion.  Anything
that garners an ADMIN post can also get you moderated.  Repeated
and persistent disruption of the list can get you moderated.
Ignoring an admin post can get you moderated. Making the admins
lose sleep over your behavior can get you moderated.

It's not something we like to do, but we will if we have to.

D. What will get you banned?

Trying to get around moderated status by posting from another
account will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.  Making
death threats on-list will get you banned.  Engaging in
sockpuppetry will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.
Repeated and persistent disruption of the list can get you banned.
If we have to moderate you repeatedly, we may ban you to save
ourselves the headache of dealing with you.

Rules of the Game

1. Criticism.  Serious, not serious, sound drubbings, round
mockings, and utter gushing - all allowed.  No, really. Gen,
het, and slash discussion is permitted, and no character or
pairing is privileged or forbidden.

2. Purpose.  Contrary to what some people seem to believe, we
are not here to workshop writers.  There are other lists for
that.  Criticism is by readers, for readers; we don't care if
the author knows about the critique or not, and although we
certainly don't object to authorial participation, CritEdge is
not a forum for authors in terms of criticism.

It is a forum for authors in terms of research and resources.
Because HL canon theoretically encompasses all of history and a
cast of billions, discussions of history, culture, and fencing
are as on-topic as Whether Methos Really Only Drinks Beer
Onscreen (he doesn't).

3. The Mannerly Art of Critique. "The Mannerly Art of
Critique" is a document that has been around for quite some time
in the newsgroups the list moderators started reading and
critiquing fan fiction.

In general, it is an excellent guide for how to have critical
discussions without degenerating into personal attacks. It is
also a piece of material that the list moderators didn't want to
lift entire chunks from wholesale, nor did they want to rewrite
it; further, the entire document is phrased as suggestions, not
as hard-and-fast rules.  The list moderators *are* rewriting it
for this list, but it's a slow process.

To address a specific issue in the current form of the document:
"The Mannerly Art of Critique" contains the following:

"Only crit those who have INVITED crit, or who have given you
permission when you ask."

This is *not* policy on this list. The list moderators consider
the very act of having made a piece of fanfiction available as
both invitation and permission to critique; no specific
permission is necessary.

4. Post trimming.  Please cut out irrelevant things from your
responses. It's annoying to have to read through the entire
previous post (or more!) to get to whatever a new poster has to
say.  This is extra-courteous for those who are on digest, or
who have to pay for online time or by the amount downloaded.

5. Metadiscussion.  This is a big one.  Many lists ban it;
CriticalEdge does not.

What this means: you can talk about discussion - how to write
criticism, why to write criticism, whether you like the tone of
a particular piece of criticism.

What it doesn't mean is that it's a free-for-all.  It's not.
Personal attacks are off-limits; telling people they *cannot* or
*should not* criticize is not permitted.

"I don't like the tone of your critique" is fine.  "I don't
think you should write critique" is not.

6. No one except one of the list moderators has the right to
tell any members of the list to play nice. Even if you really
wish other members of the list would play nice--well, you can
*ask* them to play nice, but you're not going to get backup from
this quarter.

Basically, the rule here is "play as mean as you want, as long
as you don't make ad hominem attacks or threats." Think of it as
a rough soccer game. Violence allowed, but sportsmanship counts.

7. Sockpuppets and trolls.  Historically, we have a problem
with these.  (They are especially fond of emerging from the
woodwork when one or both of the list moderators are out of town
or otherwise unable to access their computers.)  Don't respond
to them.  If you respond and then realize they're a troll or
sockpuppet, don't keep responding.

What they want most is to cause a ruckus.  Don't let them.

8. Ad hominem (personal) attacks.  If you do this too much,
and the list moderators might ban you for being disruptive; you
will be warned and put on moderated status first should this
issue actually arise.

Calling anyone mean, or stupid, or fat - those are the obvious
types of personal attack.

Talking about who's in who else's kill file is a no-no.

Attributing a lack of intelligence, adulthood, tact, etc. to
particular individuals is a no-no.

Accusing list members of being puppeteers (the people behind a
sockpuppet) is a no-no.

Asking someone *directly*, in a response to a post they have
made, if they are a sockpuppet is allowed, as is asking them if
they are a puppeteer.  (You should be aware that such questions
often turn into flamewars.)

Saying things like "I *could* call you [insult], but I won't"
counts as saying that thing.

Heated discussion is fine. Arguments that result in lifelong
fannish enmity due to political positions on slash, gen, het, or
Joe's brand of hair gel are also fine. Attacking other people is
NOT fine.  Don't do it.

9. Threats.  These can get you banned from the list
immediately.  No pardon, no appeal. The list moderators don't
want to stop people from expressing themselves in a free &
raucous manner, but anything that might be construed as a threat
of violence has to be done (a) in a humorous manner *and* (b)
only to your closest friends. So if, for instance, Mary Ellen
says something outrageous, Laura can write: "OK, that's it, I'm
sending Caspian to your house for breakfast." and trust it will
be clear to all that no actual rancor is involved. If it might
not be clear to all that your threats are only in fun, DO NOT
POST. Specifically, do not post if you are making joking threats
to someone to whom you do not consider yourself close.

If you are actually close friends but the list has no reason to
know it, you need to say something like, "Speaking as one of
your close friends, I'll rip your head off with a spoon."

The list moderators have no wish to be as humorless as airport
security guards, but they have to take seriously-phrased threats
seriously.

10. Flamewars.  Don't participate.  They are no one's friend.

11. Real Person Fiction and MiSTs.

Discussion of Real Person Fic or ideas, like every other kind of
writing or ideas, is not out of bounds on CritEdge. Posters
should be aware that these are contentious issues and some
people may get upset. No topic will be ruled OT on the grounds
that it is upsetting.

Line-by-line critiques are permitted.  The list moderators
prefer other forms of criticism.  Out and out MiSTS (fiction
mocking the other story in a line-by-line way) are not; they are
fiction, not critique.

12. Zine Stories. On-topic. Go ahead and yammer away. Just make
sure to label the posts, so that those who don't have the zine
and don't want to be spoiled (or who *do* want to be spoiled)
can avoid (or gobble up) the posts.

You can label in the subject line (probably the kindest way to
do it, especially for those list members on slow connections) or
put a note in the first line of your post that you're discussing
[Name of Zine] or [Story from Name of Zine]. You can also put in
spoiler space if you like, but it's not required.


Other Information:

A. What happens when someone violates a list rule?

That person's post may be the subject of an ADMIN post, the
person may be contacted about the violation offlist, the person
may be set on moderated status, or the admins may decide that
the provocation was sufficient.

Usually that last never comes into play unless the person is a
longtime listmember with a history of obeying the list rules but
violates one because of extreme circumstances.

B. What will get an ADMIN post?

When someone violates a list rule, they *usually*, though not
always, have done one of four things.

1. they have posted something off-topic without labelling it
such
2. they have made a personal attack in a way that warrants on-
list commentary from us
3. they are participating in a flamewar
4. they have made a personal attack in a way that does not
warrant on-list commentary from us.

Areas 1 through 3 are likely to get an ADMIN post.

Area 2 and Area 4 are where the interesting bits come in: what
warrants commentary? Generally, what is going to get an ADMIN
post falls into three areas:

1. a comment which is really incredibly nasty, such as implying
that someone is a rapist, murderer, pedophile, etc. based on
either their posts or their fiction
2. a comment made obliquely or that appears to be an attempt to
disguise an insult.
3. a comment not as nasty as A, but which the poster has a habit
of making, especially if they direct such attack against a
particular person repeatedly.

Anything outside of these three areas is unlikely to get an
ADMIN-post addressing it; usually, the poster just receives a
note off-list telling them what they did, and asking them not to
do it again.

The list moderators *do* try to keep the ADMIN'ing down, and
keeping some of it off-list helps with that. The list is fairly
volatile but not, generally speaking, unmanageable or prone to
spontaneous hostility; a great deal of comments in Area 4 are
just poor wording choices or heat-of-the-moment-thoughtlessness.

The list moderators try to apply these rules fairly; they'd like
their frequent opponents to be as comfortable here as their
frequent supporters.

C. What will get someone set on moderated status?

Moderated status is at the administrators' discretion.  Anything
that garners an ADMIN post can also get you moderated.  Repeated
and persistent disruption of the list can get you moderated.
Ignoring an admin post can get you moderated. Making the admins
lose sleep over your behavior can get you moderated.

It's not something we like to do, but we will if we have to.

D. What will get you banned?

Trying to get around moderated status by posting from another
account will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.  Making
death threats on-list will get you banned.  Engaging in
sockpuppetry will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.
Repeated and persistent disruption of the list can get you banned.
If we have to moderate you repeatedly, we may ban you to save
ourselves the headache of dealing with you.

Rules of the Game

1. Criticism.  Serious, not serious, sound drubbings, round
mockings, and utter gushing - all allowed.  No, really. Gen,
het, and slash discussion is permitted, and no character or
pairing is privileged or forbidden.

2. Purpose.  Contrary to what some people seem to believe, we
are not here to workshop writers.  There are other lists for
that.  Criticism is by readers, for readers; we don't care if
the author knows about the critique or not, and although we
certainly don't object to authorial participation, CritEdge is
not a forum for authors in terms of criticism.

It is a forum for authors in terms of research and resources.
Because HL canon theoretically encompasses all of history and a
cast of billions, discussions of history, culture, and fencing
are as on-topic as Whether Methos Really Only Drinks Beer
Onscreen (he doesn't).

3. The Mannerly Art of Critique. "The Mannerly Art of
Critique" is a document that has been around for quite some time
in the newsgroups the list moderators started reading and
critiquing fan fiction.

In general, it is an excellent guide for how to have critical
discussions without degenerating into personal attacks. It is
also a piece of material that the list moderators didn't want to
lift entire chunks from wholesale, nor did they want to rewrite
it; further, the entire document is phrased as suggestions, not
as hard-and-fast rules.  The list moderators *are* rewriting it
for this list, but it's a slow process.

To address a specific issue in the current form of the document:
"The Mannerly Art of Critique" contains the following:

"Only crit those who have INVITED crit, or who have given you
permission when you ask."

This is *not* policy on this list. The list moderators consider
the very act of having made a piece of fanfiction available as
both invitation and permission to critique; no specific
permission is necessary.

4. Post trimming.  Please cut out irrelevant things from your
responses. It's annoying to have to read through the entire
previous post (or more!) to get to whatever a new poster has to
say.  This is extra-courteous for those who are on digest, or
who have to pay for online time or by the amount downloaded.

5. Metadiscussion.  This is a big one.  Many lists ban it;
CriticalEdge does not.

What this means: you can talk about discussion - how to write
criticism, why to write criticism, whether you like the tone of
a particular piece of criticism.

What it doesn't mean is that it's a free-for-all.  It's not.
Personal attacks are off-limits; telling people they *cannot* or
*should not* criticize is not permitted.

"I don't like the tone of your critique" is fine.  "I don't
think you should write critique" is not.

6. No one except one of the list moderators has the right to
tell any members of the list to play nice. Even if you really
wish other members of the list would play nice--well, you can
*ask* them to play nice, but you're not going to get backup from
this quarter.

Basically, the rule here is "play as mean as you want, as long
as you don't make ad hominem attacks or threats." Think of it as
a rough soccer game. Violence allowed, but sportsmanship counts.

7. Sockpuppets and trolls.  Historically, we have a problem
with these.  (They are especially fond of emerging from the
woodwork when one or both of the list moderators are out of town
or otherwise unable to access their computers.)  Don't respond
to them.  If you respond and then realize they're a troll or
sockpuppet, don't keep responding.

What they want most is to cause a ruckus.  Don't let them.

8. Ad hominem (personal) attacks.  If you do this too much,
and the list moderators might ban you for being disruptive; you
will be warned and put on moderated status first should this
issue actually arise.

Calling anyone mean, or stupid, or fat - those are the obvious
types of personal attack.

Talking about who's in who else's kill file is a no-no.

Attributing a lack of intelligence, adulthood, tact, etc. to
particular individuals is a no-no.

Accusing list members of being puppeteers (the people behind a
sockpuppet) is a no-no.

Asking someone *directly*, in a response to a post they have
made, if they are a sockpuppet is allowed, as is asking them if
they are a puppeteer.  (You should be aware that such questions
often turn into flamewars.)

Saying things like "I *could* call you [insult], but I won't"
counts as saying that thing.

Heated discussion is fine. Arguments that result in lifelong
fannish enmity due to political positions on slash, gen, het, or
Joe's brand of hair gel are also fine. Attacking other people is
NOT fine.  Don't do it.

9. Threats.  These can get you banned from the list
immediately.  No pardon, no appeal. The list moderators don't
want to stop people from expressing themselves in a free &
raucous manner, but anything that might be construed as a threat
of violence has to be done (a) in a humorous manner *and* (b)
only to your closest friends. So if, for instance, Mary Ellen
says something outrageous, Laura can write: "OK, that's it, I'm
sending Caspian to your house for breakfast." and trust it will
be clear to all that no actual rancor is involved. If it might
not be clear to all that your threats are only in fun, DO NOT
POST. Specifically, do not post if you are making joking threats
to someone to whom you do not consider yourself close.

If you are actually close friends but the list has no reason to
know it, you need to say something like, "Speaking as one of
your close friends, I'll rip your head off with a spoon."

The list moderators have no wish to be as humorless as airport
security guards, but they have to take seriously-phrased threats
seriously.

10. Flamewars.  Don't participate.  They are no one's friend.

11. Real Person Fiction and MiSTs.

Discussion of Real Person Fic or ideas, like every other kind of
writing or ideas, is not out of bounds on CritEdge. Posters
should be aware that these are contentious issues and some
people may get upset. No topic will be ruled OT on the grounds
that it is upsetting.

Line-by-line critiques are permitted.  The list moderators
prefer other forms of criticism.  Out and out MiSTS (fiction
mocking the other story in a line-by-line way) are not; they are
fiction, not critique.

12. Zine Stories. On-topic. Go ahead and yammer away. Just make
sure to label the posts, so that those who don't have the zine
and don't want to be spoiled (or who *do* want to be spoiled)
can avoid (or gobble up) the posts.

You can label in the subject line (probably the kindest way to
do it, especially for those list members on slow connections) or
put a note in the first line of your post that you're discussing
[Name of Zine] or [Story from Name of Zine]. You can also put in
spoiler space if you like, but it's not required.


Other Information:

A. What happens when someone violates a list rule?

That person's post may be the subject of an ADMIN post, the
person may be contacted about the violation offlist, the person
may be set on moderated status, or the admins may decide that
the provocation was sufficient.

Usually that last never comes into play unless the person is a
longtime listmember with a history of obeying the list rules but
violates one because of extreme circumstances.

B. What will get an ADMIN post?

When someone violates a list rule, they *usually*, though not
always, have done one of four things.

1. they have posted something off-topic without labelling it
such
2. they have made a personal attack in a way that warrants on-
list commentary from us
3. they are participating in a flamewar
4. they have made a personal attack in a way that does not
warrant on-list commentary from us.

Areas 1 through 3 are likely to get an ADMIN post.

Area 2 and Area 4 are where the interesting bits come in: what
warrants commentary? Generally, what is going to get an ADMIN
post falls into three areas:

1. a comment which is really incredibly nasty, such as implying
that someone is a rapist, murderer, pedophile, etc. based on
either their posts or their fiction
2. a comment made obliquely or that appears to be an attempt to
disguise an insult.
3. a comment not as nasty as A, but which the poster has a habit
of making, especially if they direct such attack against a
particular person repeatedly.

Anything outside of these three areas is unlikely to get an
ADMIN-post addressing it; usually, the poster just receives a
note off-list telling them what they did, and asking them not to
do it again.

The list moderators *do* try to keep the ADMIN'ing down, and
keeping some of it off-list helps with that. The list is fairly
volatile but not, generally speaking, unmanageable or prone to
spontaneous hostility; a great deal of comments in Area 4 are
just poor wording choices or heat-of-the-moment-thoughtlessness.

The list moderators try to apply these rules fairly; they'd like
their frequent opponents to be as comfortable here as their
frequent supporters.

C. What will get someone set on moderated status?

Moderated status is at the administrators' discretion.  Anything
that garners an ADMIN post can also get you moderated.  Repeated
and persistent disruption of the list can get you moderated.
Ignoring an admin post can get you moderated. Making the admins
lose sleep over your behavior can get you moderated.

It's not something we like to do, but we will if we have to.

D. What will get you banned?

Trying to get around moderated status by posting from another
account will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.  Making
death threats on-list will get you banned.  Engaging in
sockpuppetry will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.
Repeated and persistent disruption of the list can get you banned.
If we have to moderate you repeatedly, we may ban you to save
ourselves the headache of dealing with you.

Rules of the Game

1. Criticism.  Serious, not serious, sound drubbings, round
mockings, and utter gushing - all allowed.  No, really. Gen,
het, and slash discussion is permitted, and no character or
pairing is privileged or forbidden.

2. Purpose.  Contrary to what some people seem to believe, we
are not here to workshop writers.  There are other lists for
that.  Criticism is by readers, for readers; we don't care if
the author knows about the critique or not, and although we
certainly don't object to authorial participation, CritEdge is
not a forum for authors in terms of criticism.

It is a forum for authors in terms of research and resources.
Because HL canon theoretically encompasses all of history and a
cast of billions, discussions of history, culture, and fencing
are as on-topic as Whether Methos Really Only Drinks Beer
Onscreen (he doesn't).

3. The Mannerly Art of Critique. "The Mannerly Art of
Critique" is a document that has been around for quite some time
in the newsgroups the list moderators started reading and
critiquing fan fiction.

In general, it is an excellent guide for how to have critical
discussions without degenerating into personal attacks. It is
also a piece of material that the list moderators didn't want to
lift entire chunks from wholesale, nor did they want to rewrite
it; further, the entire document is phrased as suggestions, not
as hard-and-fast rules.  The list moderators *are* rewriting it
for this list, but it's a slow process.

To address a specific issue in the current form of the document:
"The Mannerly Art of Critique" contains the following:

"Only crit those who have INVITED crit, or who have given you
permission when you ask."

This is *not* policy on this list. The list moderators consider
the very act of having made a piece of fanfiction available as
both invitation and permission to critique; no specific
permission is necessary.

4. Post trimming.  Please cut out irrelevant things from your
responses. It's annoying to have to read through the entire
previous post (or more!) to get to whatever a new poster has to
say.  This is extra-courteous for those who are on digest, or
who have to pay for online time or by the amount downloaded.

5. Metadiscussion.  This is a big one.  Many lists ban it;
CriticalEdge does not.

What this means: you can talk about discussion - how to write
criticism, why to write criticism, whether you like the tone of
a particular piece of criticism.

What it doesn't mean is that it's a free-for-all.  It's not.
Personal attacks are off-limits; telling people they *cannot* or
*should not* criticize is not permitted.

"I don't like the tone of your critique" is fine.  "I don't
think you should write critique" is not.

6. No one except one of the list moderators has the right to
tell any members of the list to play nice. Even if you really
wish other members of the list would play nice--well, you can
*ask* them to play nice, but you're not going to get backup from
this quarter.

Basically, the rule here is "play as mean as you want, as long
as you don't make ad hominem attacks or threats." Think of it as
a rough soccer game. Violence allowed, but sportsmanship counts.

7. Sockpuppets and trolls.  Historically, we have a problem
with these.  (They are especially fond of emerging from the
woodwork when one or both of the list moderators are out of town
or otherwise unable to access their computers.)  Don't respond
to them.  If you respond and then realize they're a troll or
sockpuppet, don't keep responding.

What they want most is to cause a ruckus.  Don't let them.

8. Ad hominem (personal) attacks.  If you do this too much,
and the list moderators might ban you for being disruptive; you
will be warned and put on moderated status first should this
issue actually arise.

Calling anyone mean, or stupid, or fat - those are the obvious
types of personal attack.

Talking about who's in who else's kill file is a no-no.

Attributing a lack of intelligence, adulthood, tact, etc. to
particular individuals is a no-no.

Accusing list members of being puppeteers (the people behind a
sockpuppet) is a no-no.

Asking someone *directly*, in a response to a post they have
made, if they are a sockpuppet is allowed, as is asking them if
they are a puppeteer.  (You should be aware that such questions
often turn into flamewars.)

Saying things like "I *could* call you [insult], but I won't"
counts as saying that thing.

Heated discussion is fine. Arguments that result in lifelong
fannish enmity due to political positions on slash, gen, het, or
Joe's brand of hair gel are also fine. Attacking other people is
NOT fine.  Don't do it.

9. Threats.  These can get you banned from the list
immediately.  No pardon, no appeal. The list moderators don't
want to stop people from expressing themselves in a free &
raucous manner, but anything that might be construed as a threat
of violence has to be done (a) in a humorous manner *and* (b)
only to your closest friends. So if, for instance, Mary Ellen
says something outrageous, Laura can write: "OK, that's it, I'm
sending Caspian to your house for breakfast." and trust it will
be clear to all that no actual rancor is involved. If it might
not be clear to all that your threats are only in fun, DO NOT
POST. Specifically, do not post if you are making joking threats
to someone to whom you do not consider yourself close.

If you are actually close friends but the list has no reason to
know it, you need to say something like, "Speaking as one of
your close friends, I'll rip your head off with a spoon."

The list moderators have no wish to be as humorless as airport
security guards, but they have to take seriously-phrased threats
seriously.

10. Flamewars.  Don't participate.  They are no one's friend.

11. Real Person Fiction and MiSTs.

Discussion of Real Person Fic or ideas, like every other kind of
writing or ideas, is not out of bounds on CritEdge. Posters
should be aware that these are contentious issues and some
people may get upset. No topic will be ruled OT on the grounds
that it is upsetting.

Line-by-line critiques are permitted.  The list moderators
prefer other forms of criticism.  Out and out MiSTS (fiction
mocking the other story in a line-by-line way) are not; they are
fiction, not critique.

12. Zine Stories. On-topic. Go ahead and yammer away. Just make
sure to label the posts, so that those who don't have the zine
and don't want to be spoiled (or who *do* want to be spoiled)
can avoid (or gobble up) the posts.

You can label in the subject line (probably the kindest way to
do it, especially for those list members on slow connections) or
put a note in the first line of your post that you're discussing
[Name of Zine] or [Story from Name of Zine]. You can also put in
spoiler space if you like, but it's not required.


Other Information:

A. What happens when someone violates a list rule?

That person's post may be the subject of an ADMIN post, the
person may be contacted about the violation offlist, the person
may be set on moderated status, or the admins may decide that
the provocation was sufficient.

Usually that last never comes into play unless the person is a
longtime listmember with a history of obeying the list rules but
violates one because of extreme circumstances.

B. What will get an ADMIN post?

When someone violates a list rule, they *usually*, though not
always, have done one of four things.

1. they have posted something off-topic without labelling it
such
2. they have made a personal attack in a way that warrants on-
list commentary from us
3. they are participating in a flamewar
4. they have made a personal attack in a way that does not
warrant on-list commentary from us.

Areas 1 through 3 are likely to get an ADMIN post.

Area 2 and Area 4 are where the interesting bits come in: what
warrants commentary? Generally, what is going to get an ADMIN
post falls into three areas:

1. a comment which is really incredibly nasty, such as implying
that someone is a rapist, murderer, pedophile, etc. based on
either their posts or their fiction
2. a comment made obliquely or that appears to be an attempt to
disguise an insult.
3. a comment not as nasty as A, but which the poster has a habit
of making, especially if they direct such attack against a
particular person repeatedly.

Anything outside of these three areas is unlikely to get an
ADMIN-post addressing it; usually, the poster just receives a
note off-list telling them what they did, and asking them not to
do it again.

The list moderators *do* try to keep the ADMIN'ing down, and
keeping some of it off-list helps with that. The list is fairly
volatile but not, generally speaking, unmanageable or prone to
spontaneous hostility; a great deal of comments in Area 4 are
just poor wording choices or heat-of-the-moment-thoughtlessness.

The list moderators try to apply these rules fairly; they'd like
their frequent opponents to be as comfortable here as their
frequent supporters.

C. What will get someone set on moderated status?

Moderated status is at the administrators' discretion.  Anything
that garners an ADMIN post can also get you moderated.  Repeated
and persistent disruption of the list can get you moderated.
Ignoring an admin post can get you moderated. Making the admins
lose sleep over your behavior can get you moderated.

It's not something we like to do, but we will if we have to.

D. What will get you banned?

Trying to get around moderated status by posting from another
account will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.  Making
death threats on-list will get you banned.  Engaging in
sockpuppetry will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.
Repeated and persistent disruption of the list can get you banned.
If we have to moderate you repeatedly, we may ban you to save
ourselves the headache of dealing with you.

Rules of the Game

1. Criticism.  Serious, not serious, sound drubbings, round
mockings, and utter gushing - all allowed.  No, really. Gen,
het, and slash discussion is permitted, and no character or
pairing is privileged or forbidden.

2. Purpose.  Contrary to what some people seem to believe, we
are not here to workshop writers.  There are other lists for
that.  Criticism is by readers, for readers; we don't care if
the author knows about the critique or not, and although we
certainly don't object to authorial participation, CritEdge is
not a forum for authors in terms of criticism.

It is a forum for authors in terms of research and resources.
Because HL canon theoretically encompasses all of history and a
cast of billions, discussions of history, culture, and fencing
are as on-topic as Whether Methos Really Only Drinks Beer
Onscreen (he doesn't).

3. The Mannerly Art of Critique. "The Mannerly Art of
Critique" is a document that has been around for quite some time
in the newsgroups the list moderators started reading and
critiquing fan fiction.

In general, it is an excellent guide for how to have critical
discussions without degenerating into personal attacks. It is
also a piece of material that the list moderators didn't want to
lift entire chunks from wholesale, nor did they want to rewrite
it; further, the entire document is phrased as suggestions, not
as hard-and-fast rules.  The list moderators *are* rewriting it
for this list, but it's a slow process.

To address a specific issue in the current form of the document:
"The Mannerly Art of Critique" contains the following:

"Only crit those who have INVITED crit, or who have given you
permission when you ask."

This is *not* policy on this list. The list moderators consider
the very act of having made a piece of fanfiction available as
both invitation and permission to critique; no specific
permission is necessary.

4. Post trimming.  Please cut out irrelevant things from your
responses. It's annoying to have to read through the entire
previous post (or more!) to get to whatever a new poster has to
say.  This is extra-courteous for those who are on digest, or
who have to pay for online time or by the amount downloaded.

5. Metadiscussion.  This is a big one.  Many lists ban it;
CriticalEdge does not.

What this means: you can talk about discussion - how to write
criticism, why to write criticism, whether you like the tone of
a particular piece of criticism.

What it doesn't mean is that it's a free-for-all.  It's not.
Personal attacks are off-limits; telling people they *cannot* or
*should not* criticize is not permitted.

"I don't like the tone of your critique" is fine.  "I don't
think you should write critique" is not.

6. No one except one of the list moderators has the right to
tell any members of the list to play nice. Even if you really
wish other members of the list would play nice--well, you can
*ask* them to play nice, but you're not going to get backup from
this quarter.

Basically, the rule here is "play as mean as you want, as long
as you don't make ad hominem attacks or threats." Think of it as
a rough soccer game. Violence allowed, but sportsmanship counts.

7. Sockpuppets and trolls.  Historically, we have a problem
with these.  (They are especially fond of emerging from the
woodwork when one or both of the list moderators are out of town
or otherwise unable to access their computers.)  Don't respond
to them.  If you respond and then realize they're a troll or
sockpuppet, don't keep responding.

What they want most is to cause a ruckus.  Don't let them.

8. Ad hominem (personal) attacks.  If you do this too much,
and the list moderators might ban you for being disruptive; you
will be warned and put on moderated status first should this
issue actually arise.

Calling anyone mean, or stupid, or fat - those are the obvious
types of personal attack.

Talking about who's in who else's kill file is a no-no.

Attributing a lack of intelligence, adulthood, tact, etc. to
particular individuals is a no-no.

Accusing list members of being puppeteers (the people behind a
sockpuppet) is a no-no.

Asking someone *directly*, in a response to a post they have
made, if they are a sockpuppet is allowed, as is asking them if
they are a puppeteer.  (You should be aware that such questions
often turn into flamewars.)

Saying things like "I *could* call you [insult], but I won't"
counts as saying that thing.

Heated discussion is fine. Arguments that result in lifelong
fannish enmity due to political positions on slash, gen, het, or
Joe's brand of hair gel are also fine. Attacking other people is
NOT fine.  Don't do it.

9. Threats.  These can get you banned from the list
immediately.  No pardon, no appeal. The list moderators don't
want to stop people from expressing themselves in a free &
raucous manner, but anything that might be construed as a threat
of violence has to be done (a) in a humorous manner *and* (b)
only to your closest friends. So if, for instance, Mary Ellen
says something outrageous, Laura can write: "OK, that's it, I'm
sending Caspian to your house for breakfast." and trust it will
be clear to all that no actual rancor is involved. If it might
not be clear to all that your threats are only in fun, DO NOT
POST. Specifically, do not post if you are making joking threats
to someone to whom you do not consider yourself close.

If you are actually close friends but the list has no reason to
know it, you need to say something like, "Speaking as one of
your close friends, I'll rip your head off with a spoon."

The list moderators have no wish to be as humorless as airport
security guards, but they have to take seriously-phrased threats
seriously.

10. Flamewars.  Don't participate.  They are no one's friend.

11. Real Person Fiction and MiSTs.

Discussion of Real Person Fic or ideas, like every other kind of
writing or ideas, is not out of bounds on CritEdge. Posters
should be aware that these are contentious issues and some
people may get upset. No topic will be ruled OT on the grounds
that it is upsetting.

Line-by-line critiques are permitted.  The list moderators
prefer other forms of criticism.  Out and out MiSTS (fiction
mocking the other story in a line-by-line way) are not; they are
fiction, not critique.

12. Zine Stories. On-topic. Go ahead and yammer away. Just make
sure to label the posts, so that those who don't have the zine
and don't want to be spoiled (or who *do* want to be spoiled)
can avoid (or gobble up) the posts.

You can label in the subject line (probably the kindest way to
do it, especially for those list members on slow connections) or
put a note in the first line of your post that you're discussing
[Name of Zine] or [Story from Name of Zine]. You can also put in
spoiler space if you like, but it's not required.


Other Information:

A. What happens when someone violates a list rule?

That person's post may be the subject of an ADMIN post, the
person may be contacted about the violation offlist, the person
may be set on moderated status, or the admins may decide that
the provocation was sufficient.

Usually that last never comes into play unless the person is a
longtime listmember with a history of obeying the list rules but
violates one because of extreme circumstances.

B. What will get an ADMIN post?

When someone violates a list rule, they *usually*, though not
always, have done one of four things.

1. they have posted something off-topic without labelling it
such
2. they have made a personal attack in a way that warrants on-
list commentary from us
3. they are participating in a flamewar
4. they have made a personal attack in a way that does not
warrant on-list commentary from us.

Areas 1 through 3 are likely to get an ADMIN post.

Area 2 and Area 4 are where the interesting bits come in: what
warrants commentary? Generally, what is going to get an ADMIN
post falls into three areas:

1. a comment which is really incredibly nasty, such as implying
that someone is a rapist, murderer, pedophile, etc. based on
either their posts or their fiction
2. a comment made obliquely or that appears to be an attempt to
disguise an insult.
3. a comment not as nasty as A, but which the poster has a habit
of making, especially if they direct such attack against a
particular person repeatedly.

Anything outside of these three areas is unlikely to get an
ADMIN-post addressing it; usually, the poster just receives a
note off-list telling them what they did, and asking them not to
do it again.

The list moderators *do* try to keep the ADMIN'ing down, and
keeping some of it off-list helps with that. The list is fairly
volatile but not, generally speaking, unmanageable or prone to
spontaneous hostility; a great deal of comments in Area 4 are
just poor wording choices or heat-of-the-moment-thoughtlessness.

The list moderators try to apply these rules fairly; they'd like
their frequent opponents to be as comfortable here as their
frequent supporters.

C. What will get someone set on moderated status?

Moderated status is at the administrators' discretion.  Anything
that garners an ADMIN post can also get you moderated.  Repeated
and persistent disruption of the list can get you moderated.
Ignoring an admin post can get you moderated. Making the admins
lose sleep over your behavior can get you moderated.

It's not something we like to do, but we will if we have to.

D. What will get you banned?

Trying to get around moderated status by posting from another
account will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.  Making
death threats on-list will get you banned.  Engaging in
sockpuppetry will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.
Repeated and persistent disruption of the list can get you banned.
If we have to moderate you repeatedly, we may ban you to save
ourselves the headache of dealing with you.

Rules of the Game

1. Criticism.  Serious, not serious, sound drubbings, round
mockings, and utter gushing - all allowed.  No, really. Gen,
het, and slash discussion is permitted, and no character or
pairing is privileged or forbidden.

2. Purpose.  Contrary to what some people seem to believe, we
are not here to workshop writers.  There are other lists for
that.  Criticism is by readers, for readers; we don't care if
the author knows about the critique or not, and although we
certainly don't object to authorial participation, CritEdge is
not a forum for authors in terms of criticism.

It is a forum for authors in terms of research and resources.
Because HL canon theoretically encompasses all of history and a
cast of billions, discussions of history, culture, and fencing
are as on-topic as Whether Methos Really Only Drinks Beer
Onscreen (he doesn't).

3. The Mannerly Art of Critique. "The Mannerly Art of
Critique" is a document that has been around for quite some time
in the newsgroups the list moderators started reading and
critiquing fan fiction.

In general, it is an excellent guide for how to have critical
discussions without degenerating into personal attacks. It is
also a piece of material that the list moderators didn't want to
lift entire chunks from wholesale, nor did they want to rewrite
it; further, the entire document is phrased as suggestions, not
as hard-and-fast rules.  The list moderators *are* rewriting it
for this list, but it's a slow process.

To address a specific issue in the current form of the document:
"The Mannerly Art of Critique" contains the following:

"Only crit those who have INVITED crit, or who have given you
permission when you ask."

This is *not* policy on this list. The list moderators consider
the very act of having made a piece of fanfiction available as
both invitation and permission to critique; no specific
permission is necessary.

4. Post trimming.  Please cut out irrelevant things from your
responses. It's annoying to have to read through the entire
previous post (or more!) to get to whatever a new poster has to
say.  This is extra-courteous for those who are on digest, or
who have to pay for online time or by the amount downloaded.

5. Metadiscussion.  This is a big one.  Many lists ban it;
CriticalEdge does not.

What this means: you can talk about discussion - how to write
criticism, why to write criticism, whether you like the tone of
a particular piece of criticism.

What it doesn't mean is that it's a free-for-all.  It's not.
Personal attacks are off-limits; telling people they *cannot* or
*should not* criticize is not permitted.

"I don't like the tone of your critique" is fine.  "I don't
think you should write critique" is not.

6. No one except one of the list moderators has the right to
tell any members of the list to play nice. Even if you really
wish other members of the list would play nice--well, you can
*ask* them to play nice, but you're not going to get backup from
this quarter.

Basically, the rule here is "play as mean as you want, as long
as you don't make ad hominem attacks or threats." Think of it as
a rough soccer game. Violence allowed, but sportsmanship counts.

7. Sockpuppets and trolls.  Historically, we have a problem
with these.  (They are especially fond of emerging from the
woodwork when one or both of the list moderators are out of town
or otherwise unable to access their computers.)  Don't respond
to them.  If you respond and then realize they're a troll or
sockpuppet, don't keep responding.

What they want most is to cause a ruckus.  Don't let them.

8. Ad hominem (personal) attacks.  If you do this too much,
and the list moderators might ban you for being disruptive; you
will be warned and put on moderated status first should this
issue actually arise.

Calling anyone mean, or stupid, or fat - those are the obvious
types of personal attack.

Talking about who's in who else's kill file is a no-no.

Attributing a lack of intelligence, adulthood, tact, etc. to
particular individuals is a no-no.

Accusing list members of being puppeteers (the people behind a
sockpuppet) is a no-no.

Asking someone *directly*, in a response to a post they have
made, if they are a sockpuppet is allowed, as is asking them if
they are a puppeteer.  (You should be aware that such questions
often turn into flamewars.)

Saying things like "I *could* call you [insult], but I won't"
counts as saying that thing.

Heated discussion is fine. Arguments that result in lifelong
fannish enmity due to political positions on slash, gen, het, or
Joe's brand of hair gel are also fine. Attacking other people is
NOT fine.  Don't do it.

9. Threats.  These can get you banned from the list
immediately.  No pardon, no appeal. The list moderators don't
want to stop people from expressing themselves in a free &
raucous manner, but anything that might be construed as a threat
of violence has to be done (a) in a humorous manner *and* (b)
only to your closest friends. So if, for instance, Mary Ellen
says something outrageous, Laura can write: "OK, that's it, I'm
sending Caspian to your house for breakfast." and trust it will
be clear to all that no actual rancor is involved. If it might
not be clear to all that your threats are only in fun, DO NOT
POST. Specifically, do not post if you are making joking threats
to someone to whom you do not consider yourself close.

If you are actually close friends but the list has no reason to
know it, you need to say something like, "Speaking as one of
your close friends, I'll rip your head off with a spoon."

The list moderators have no wish to be as humorless as airport
security guards, but they have to take seriously-phrased threats
seriously.

10. Flamewars.  Don't participate.  They are no one's friend.

11. Real Person Fiction and MiSTs.

Discussion of Real Person Fic or ideas, like every other kind of
writing or ideas, is not out of bounds on CritEdge. Posters
should be aware that these are contentious issues and some
people may get upset. No topic will be ruled OT on the grounds
that it is upsetting.

Line-by-line critiques are permitted.  The list moderators
prefer other forms of criticism.  Out and out MiSTS (fiction
mocking the other story in a line-by-line way) are not; they are
fiction, not critique.

12. Zine Stories. On-topic. Go ahead and yammer away. Just make
sure to label the posts, so that those who don't have the zine
and don't want to be spoiled (or who *do* want to be spoiled)
can avoid (or gobble up) the posts.

You can label in the subject line (probably the kindest way to
do it, especially for those list members on slow connections) or
put a note in the first line of your post that you're discussing
[Name of Zine] or [Story from Name of Zine]. You can also put in
spoiler space if you like, but it's not required.


Other Information:

A. What happens when someone violates a list rule?

That person's post may be the subject of an ADMIN post, the
person may be contacted about the violation offlist, the person
may be set on moderated status, or the admins may decide that
the provocation was sufficient.

Usually that last never comes into play unless the person is a
longtime listmember with a history of obeying the list rules but
violates one because of extreme circumstances.

B. What will get an ADMIN post?

When someone violates a list rule, they *usually*, though not
always, have done one of four things.

1. they have posted something off-topic without labelling it
such
2. they have made a personal attack in a way that warrants on-
list commentary from us
3. they are participating in a flamewar
4. they have made a personal attack in a way that does not
warrant on-list commentary from us.

Areas 1 through 3 are likely to get an ADMIN post.

Area 2 and Area 4 are where the interesting bits come in: what
warrants commentary? Generally, what is going to get an ADMIN
post falls into three areas:

1. a comment which is really incredibly nasty, such as implying
that someone is a rapist, murderer, pedophile, etc. based on
either their posts or their fiction
2. a comment made obliquely or that appears to be an attempt to
disguise an insult.
3. a comment not as nasty as A, but which the poster has a habit
of making, especially if they direct such attack against a
particular person repeatedly.

Anything outside of these three areas is unlikely to get an
ADMIN-post addressing it; usually, the poster just receives a
note off-list telling them what they did, and asking them not to
do it again.

The list moderators *do* try to keep the ADMIN'ing down, and
keeping some of it off-list helps with that. The list is fairly
volatile but not, generally speaking, unmanageable or prone to
spontaneous hostility; a great deal of comments in Area 4 are
just poor wording choices or heat-of-the-moment-thoughtlessness.

The list moderators try to apply these rules fairly; they'd like
their frequent opponents to be as comfortable here as their
frequent supporters.

C. What will get someone set on moderated status?

Moderated status is at the administrators' discretion.  Anything
that garners an ADMIN post can also get you moderated.  Repeated
and persistent disruption of the list can get you moderated.
Ignoring an admin post can get you moderated. Making the admins
lose sleep over your behavior can get you moderated.

It's not something we like to do, but we will if we have to.

D. What will get you banned?

Trying to get around moderated status by posting from another
account will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.  Making
death threats on-list will get you banned.  Engaging in
sockpuppetry will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.
Repeated and persistent disruption of the list can get you banned.
If we have to moderate you repeatedly, we may ban you to save
ourselves the headache of dealing with you.

Rules of the Game

1. Criticism.  Serious, not serious, sound drubbings, round
mockings, and utter gushing - all allowed.  No, really. Gen,
het, and slash discussion is permitted, and no character or
pairing is privileged or forbidden.

2. Purpose.  Contrary to what some people seem to believe, we
are not here to workshop writers.  There are other lists for
that.  Criticism is by readers, for readers; we don't care if
the author knows about the critique or not, and although we
certainly don't object to authorial participation, CritEdge is
not a forum for authors in terms of criticism.

It is a forum for authors in terms of research and resources.
Because HL canon theoretically encompasses all of history and a
cast of billions, discussions of history, culture, and fencing
are as on-topic as Whether Methos Really Only Drinks Beer
Onscreen (he doesn't).

3. The Mannerly Art of Critique. "The Mannerly Art of
Critique" is a document that has been around for quite some time
in the newsgroups the list moderators started reading and
critiquing fan fiction.

In general, it is an excellent guide for how to have critical
discussions without degenerating into personal attacks. It is
also a piece of material that the list moderators didn't want to
lift entire chunks from wholesale, nor did they want to rewrite
it; further, the entire document is phrased as suggestions, not
as hard-and-fast rules.  The list moderators *are* rewriting it
for this list, but it's a slow process.

To address a specific issue in the current form of the document:
"The Mannerly Art of Critique" contains the following:

"Only crit those who have INVITED crit, or who have given you
permission when you ask."

This is *not* policy on this list. The list moderators consider
the very act of having made a piece of fanfiction available as
both invitation and permission to critique; no specific
permission is necessary.

4. Post trimming.  Please cut out irrelevant things from your
responses. It's annoying to have to read through the entire
previous post (or more!) to get to whatever a new poster has to
say.  This is extra-courteous for those who are on digest, or
who have to pay for online time or by the amount downloaded.

5. Metadiscussion.  This is a big one.  Many lists ban it;
CriticalEdge does not.

What this means: you can talk about discussion - how to write
criticism, why to write criticism, whether you like the tone of
a particular piece of criticism.

What it doesn't mean is that it's a free-for-all.  It's not.
Personal attacks are off-limits; telling people they *cannot* or
*should not* criticize is not permitted.

"I don't like the tone of your critique" is fine.  "I don't
think you should write critique" is not.

6. No one except one of the list moderators has the right to
tell any members of the list to play nice. Even if you really
wish other members of the list would play nice--well, you can
*ask* them to play nice, but you're not going to get backup from
this quarter.

Basically, the rule here is "play as mean as you want, as long
as you don't make ad hominem attacks or threats." Think of it as
a rough soccer game. Violence allowed, but sportsmanship counts.

7. Sockpuppets and trolls.  Historically, we have a problem
with these.  (They are especially fond of emerging from the
woodwork when one or both of the list moderators are out of town
or otherwise unable to access their computers.)  Don't respond
to them.  If you respond and then realize they're a troll or
sockpuppet, don't keep responding.

What they want most is to cause a ruckus.  Don't let them.

8. Ad hominem (personal) attacks.  If you do this too much,
and the list moderators might ban you for being disruptive; you
will be warned and put on moderated status first should this
issue actually arise.

Calling anyone mean, or stupid, or fat - those are the obvious
types of personal attack.

Talking about who's in who else's kill file is a no-no.

Attributing a lack of intelligence, adulthood, tact, etc. to
particular individuals is a no-no.

Accusing list members of being puppeteers (the people behind a
sockpuppet) is a no-no.

Asking someone *directly*, in a response to a post they have
made, if they are a sockpuppet is allowed, as is asking them if
they are a puppeteer.  (You should be aware that such questions
often turn into flamewars.)

Saying things like "I *could* call you [insult], but I won't"
counts as saying that thing.

Heated discussion is fine. Arguments that result in lifelong
fannish enmity due to political positions on slash, gen, het, or
Joe's brand of hair gel are also fine. Attacking other people is
NOT fine.  Don't do it.

9. Threats.  These can get you banned from the list
immediately.  No pardon, no appeal. The list moderators don't
want to stop people from expressing themselves in a free &
raucous manner, but anything that might be construed as a threat
of violence has to be done (a) in a humorous manner *and* (b)
only to your closest friends. So if, for instance, Mary Ellen
says something outrageous, Laura can write: "OK, that's it, I'm
sending Caspian to your house for breakfast." and trust it will
be clear to all that no actual rancor is involved. If it might
not be clear to all that your threats are only in fun, DO NOT
POST. Specifically, do not post if you are making joking threats
to someone to whom you do not consider yourself close.

If you are actually close friends but the list has no reason to
know it, you need to say something like, "Speaking as one of
your close friends, I'll rip your head off with a spoon."

The list moderators have no wish to be as humorless as airport
security guards, but they have to take seriously-phrased threats
seriously.

10. Flamewars.  Don't participate.  They are no one's friend.

11. Real Person Fiction and MiSTs.

Discussion of Real Person Fic or ideas, like every other kind of
writing or ideas, is not out of bounds on CritEdge. Posters
should be aware that these are contentious issues and some
people may get upset. No topic will be ruled OT on the grounds
that it is upsetting.

Line-by-line critiques are permitted.  The list moderators
prefer other forms of criticism.  Out and out MiSTS (fiction
mocking the other story in a line-by-line way) are not; they are
fiction, not critique.

12. Zine Stories. On-topic. Go ahead and yammer away. Just make
sure to label the posts, so that those who don't have the zine
and don't want to be spoiled (or who *do* want to be spoiled)
can avoid (or gobble up) the posts.

You can label in the subject line (probably the kindest way to
do it, especially for those list members on slow connections) or
put a note in the first line of your post that you're discussing
[Name of Zine] or [Story from Name of Zine]. You can also put in
spoiler space if you like, but it's not required.


Other Information:

A. What happens when someone violates a list rule?

That person's post may be the subject of an ADMIN post, the
person may be contacted about the violation offlist, the person
may be set on moderated status, or the admins may decide that
the provocation was sufficient.

Usually that last never comes into play unless the person is a
longtime listmember with a history of obeying the list rules but
violates one because of extreme circumstances.

B. What will get an ADMIN post?

When someone violates a list rule, they *usually*, though not
always, have done one of four things.

1. they have posted something off-topic without labelling it
such
2. they have made a personal attack in a way that warrants on-
list commentary from us
3. they are participating in a flamewar
4. they have made a personal attack in a way that does not
warrant on-list commentary from us.

Areas 1 through 3 are likely to get an ADMIN post.

Area 2 and Area 4 are where the interesting bits come in: what
warrants commentary? Generally, what is going to get an ADMIN
post falls into three areas:

1. a comment which is really incredibly nasty, such as implying
that someone is a rapist, murderer, pedophile, etc. based on
either their posts or their fiction
2. a comment made obliquely or that appears to be an attempt to
disguise an insult.
3. a comment not as nasty as A, but which the poster has a habit
of making, especially if they direct such attack against a
particular person repeatedly.

Anything outside of these three areas is unlikely to get an
ADMIN-post addressing it; usually, the poster just receives a
note off-list telling them what they did, and asking them not to
do it again.

The list moderators *do* try to keep the ADMIN'ing down, and
keeping some of it off-list helps with that. The list is fairly
volatile but not, generally speaking, unmanageable or prone to
spontaneous hostility; a great deal of comments in Area 4 are
just poor wording choices or heat-of-the-moment-thoughtlessness.

The list moderators try to apply these rules fairly; they'd like
their frequent opponents to be as comfortable here as their
frequent supporters.

C. What will get someone set on moderated status?

Moderated status is at the administrators' discretion.  Anything
that garners an ADMIN post can also get you moderated.  Repeated
and persistent disruption of the list can get you moderated.
Ignoring an admin post can get you moderated. Making the admins
lose sleep over your behavior can get you moderated.

It's not something we like to do, but we will if we have to.

D. What will get you banned?

Trying to get around moderated status by posting from another
account will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.  Making
death threats on-list will get you banned.  Engaging in
sockpuppetry will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.
Repeated and persistent disruption of the list can get you banned.
If we have to moderate you repeatedly, we may ban you to save
ourselves the headache of dealing with you.

Rules of the Game

1. Criticism.  Serious, not serious, sound drubbings, round
mockings, and utter gushing - all allowed.  No, really. Gen,
het, and slash discussion is permitted, and no character or
pairing is privileged or forbidden.

2. Purpose.  Contrary to what some people seem to believe, we
are not here to workshop writers.  There are other lists for
that.  Criticism is by readers, for readers; we don't care if
the author knows about the critique or not, and although we
certainly don't object to authorial participation, CritEdge is
not a forum for authors in terms of criticism.

It is a forum for authors in terms of research and resources.
Because HL canon theoretically encompasses all of history and a
cast of billions, discussions of history, culture, and fencing
are as on-topic as Whether Methos Really Only Drinks Beer
Onscreen (he doesn't).

3. The Mannerly Art of Critique. "The Mannerly Art of
Critique" is a document that has been around for quite some time
in the newsgroups the list moderators started reading and
critiquing fan fiction.

In general, it is an excellent guide for how to have critical
discussions without degenerating into personal attacks. It is
also a piece of material that the list moderators didn't want to
lift entire chunks from wholesale, nor did they want to rewrite
it; further, the entire document is phrased as suggestions, not
as hard-and-fast rules.  The list moderators *are* rewriting it
for this list, but it's a slow process.

To address a specific issue in the current form of the document:
"The Mannerly Art of Critique" contains the following:

"Only crit those who have INVITED crit, or who have given you
permission when you ask."

This is *not* policy on this list. The list moderators consider
the very act of having made a piece of fanfiction available as
both invitation and permission to critique; no specific
permission is necessary.

4. Post trimming.  Please cut out irrelevant things from your
responses. It's annoying to have to read through the entire
previous post (or more!) to get to whatever a new poster has to
say.  This is extra-courteous for those who are on digest, or
who have to pay for online time or by the amount downloaded.

5. Metadiscussion.  This is a big one.  Many lists ban it;
CriticalEdge does not.

What this means: you can talk about discussion - how to write
criticism, why to write criticism, whether you like the tone of
a particular piece of criticism.

What it doesn't mean is that it's a free-for-all.  It's not.
Personal attacks are off-limits; telling people they *cannot* or
*should not* criticize is not permitted.

"I don't like the tone of your critique" is fine.  "I don't
think you should write critique" is not.

6. No one except one of the list moderators has the right to
tell any members of the list to play nice. Even if you really
wish other members of the list would play nice--well, you can
*ask* them to play nice, but you're not going to get backup from
this quarter.

Basically, the rule here is "play as mean as you want, as long
as you don't make ad hominem attacks or threats." Think of it as
a rough soccer game. Violence allowed, but sportsmanship counts.

7. Sockpuppets and trolls.  Historically, we have a problem
with these.  (They are especially fond of emerging from the
woodwork when one or both of the list moderators are out of town
or otherwise unable to access their computers.)  Don't respond
to them.  If you respond and then realize they're a troll or
sockpuppet, don't keep responding.

What they want most is to cause a ruckus.  Don't let them.

8. Ad hominem (personal) attacks.  If you do this too much,
and the list moderators might ban you for being disruptive; you
will be warned and put on moderated status first should this
issue actually arise.

Calling anyone mean, or stupid, or fat - those are the obvious
types of personal attack.

Talking about who's in who else's kill file is a no-no.

Attributing a lack of intelligence, adulthood, tact, etc. to
particular individuals is a no-no.

Accusing list members of being puppeteers (the people behind a
sockpuppet) is a no-no.

Asking someone *directly*, in a response to a post they have
made, if they are a sockpuppet is allowed, as is asking them if
they are a puppeteer.  (You should be aware that such questions
often turn into flamewars.)

Saying things like "I *could* call you [insult], but I won't"
counts as saying that thing.

Heated discussion is fine. Arguments that result in lifelong
fannish enmity due to political positions on slash, gen, het, or
Joe's brand of hair gel are also fine. Attacking other people is
NOT fine.  Don't do it.

9. Threats.  These can get you banned from the list
immediately.  No pardon, no appeal. The list moderators don't
want to stop people from expressing themselves in a free &
raucous manner, but anything that might be construed as a threat
of violence has to be done (a) in a humorous manner *and* (b)
only to your closest friends. So if, for instance, Mary Ellen
says something outrageous, Laura can write: "OK, that's it, I'm
sending Caspian to your house for breakfast." and trust it will
be clear to all that no actual rancor is involved. If it might
not be clear to all that your threats are only in fun, DO NOT
POST. Specifically, do not post if you are making joking threats
to someone to whom you do not consider yourself close.

If you are actually close friends but the list has no reason to
know it, you need to say something like, "Speaking as one of
your close friends, I'll rip your head off with a spoon."

The list moderators have no wish to be as humorless as airport
security guards, but they have to take seriously-phrased threats
seriously.

10. Flamewars.  Don't participate.  They are no one's friend.

11. Real Person Fiction and MiSTs.

Discussion of Real Person Fic or ideas, like every other kind of
writing or ideas, is not out of bounds on CritEdge. Posters
should be aware that these are contentious issues and some
people may get upset. No topic will be ruled OT on the grounds
that it is upsetting.

Line-by-line critiques are permitted.  The list moderators
prefer other forms of criticism.  Out and out MiSTS (fiction
mocking the other story in a line-by-line way) are not; they are
fiction, not critique.

12. Zine Stories. On-topic. Go ahead and yammer away. Just make
sure to label the posts, so that those who don't have the zine
and don't want to be spoiled (or who *do* want to be spoiled)
can avoid (or gobble up) the posts.

You can label in the subject line (probably the kindest way to
do it, especially for those list members on slow connections) or
put a note in the first line of your post that you're discussing
[Name of Zine] or [Story from Name of Zine]. You can also put in
spoiler space if you like, but it's not required.


Other Information:

A. What happens when someone violates a list rule?

That person's post may be the subject of an ADMIN post, the
person may be contacted about the violation offlist, the person
may be set on moderated status, or the admins may decide that
the provocation was sufficient.

Usually that last never comes into play unless the person is a
longtime listmember with a history of obeying the list rules but
violates one because of extreme circumstances.

B. What will get an ADMIN post?

When someone violates a list rule, they *usually*, though not
always, have done one of four things.

1. they have posted something off-topic without labelling it
such
2. they have made a personal attack in a way that warrants on-
list commentary from us
3. they are participating in a flamewar
4. they have made a personal attack in a way that does not
warrant on-list commentary from us.

Areas 1 through 3 are likely to get an ADMIN post.

Area 2 and Area 4 are where the interesting bits come in: what
warrants commentary? Generally, what is going to get an ADMIN
post falls into three areas:

1. a comment which is really incredibly nasty, such as implying
that someone is a rapist, murderer, pedophile, etc. based on
either their posts or their fiction
2. a comment made obliquely or that appears to be an attempt to
disguise an insult.
3. a comment not as nasty as A, but which the poster has a habit
of making, especially if they direct such attack against a
particular person repeatedly.

Anything outside of these three areas is unlikely to get an
ADMIN-post addressing it; usually, the poster just receives a
note off-list telling them what they did, and asking them not to
do it again.

The list moderators *do* try to keep the ADMIN'ing down, and
keeping some of it off-list helps with that. The list is fairly
volatile but not, generally speaking, unmanageable or prone to
spontaneous hostility; a great deal of comments in Area 4 are
just poor wording choices or heat-of-the-moment-thoughtlessness.

The list moderators try to apply these rules fairly; they'd like
their frequent opponents to be as comfortable here as their
frequent supporters.

C. What will get someone set on moderated status?

Moderated status is at the administrators' discretion.  Anything
that garners an ADMIN post can also get you moderated.  Repeated
and persistent disruption of the list can get you moderated.
Ignoring an admin post can get you moderated. Making the admins
lose sleep over your behavior can get you moderated.

It's not something we like to do, but we will if we have to.

D. What will get you banned?

Trying to get around moderated status by posting from another
account will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.  Making
death threats on-list will get you banned.  Engaging in
sockpuppetry will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.
Repeated and persistent disruption of the list can get you banned.
If we have to moderate you repeatedly, we may ban you to save
ourselves the headache of dealing with you.

Rules of the Game

1. Criticism.  Serious, not serious, sound drubbings, round
mockings, and utter gushing - all allowed.  No, really. Gen,
het, and slash discussion is permitted, and no character or
pairing is privileged or forbidden.

2. Purpose.  Contrary to what some people seem to believe, we
are not here to workshop writers.  There are other lists for
that.  Criticism is by readers, for readers; we don't care if
the author knows about the critique or not, and although we
certainly don't object to authorial participation, CritEdge is
not a forum for authors in terms of criticism.

It is a forum for authors in terms of research and resources.
Because HL canon theoretically encompasses all of history and a
cast of billions, discussions of history, culture, and fencing
are as on-topic as Whether Methos Really Only Drinks Beer
Onscreen (he doesn't).

3. The Mannerly Art of Critique. "The Mannerly Art of
Critique" is a document that has been around for quite some time
in the newsgroups the list moderators started reading and
critiquing fan fiction.

In general, it is an excellent guide for how to have critical
discussions without degenerating into personal attacks. It is
also a piece of material that the list moderators didn't want to
lift entire chunks from wholesale, nor did they want to rewrite
it; further, the entire document is phrased as suggestions, not
as hard-and-fast rules.  The list moderators *are* rewriting it
for this list, but it's a slow process.

To address a specific issue in the current form of the document:
"The Mannerly Art of Critique" contains the following:

"Only crit those who have INVITED crit, or who have given you
permission when you ask."

This is *not* policy on this list. The list moderators consider
the very act of having made a piece of fanfiction available as
both invitation and permission to critique; no specific
permission is necessary.

4. Post trimming.  Please cut out irrelevant things from your
responses. It's annoying to have to read through the entire
previous post (or more!) to get to whatever a new poster has to
say.  This is extra-courteous for those who are on digest, or
who have to pay for online time or by the amount downloaded.

5. Metadiscussion.  This is a big one.  Many lists ban it;
CriticalEdge does not.

What this means: you can talk about discussion - how to write
criticism, why to write criticism, whether you like the tone of
a particular piece of criticism.

What it doesn't mean is that it's a free-for-all.  It's not.
Personal attacks are off-limits; telling people they *cannot* or
*should not* criticize is not permitted.

"I don't like the tone of your critique" is fine.  "I don't
think you should write critique" is not.

6. No one except one of the list moderators has the right to
tell any members of the list to play nice. Even if you really
wish other members of the list would play nice--well, you can
*ask* them to play nice, but you're not going to get backup from
this quarter.

Basically, the rule here is "play as mean as you want, as long
as you don't make ad hominem attacks or threats." Think of it as
a rough soccer game. Violence allowed, but sportsmanship counts.

7. Sockpuppets and trolls.  Historically, we have a problem
with these.  (They are especially fond of emerging from the
woodwork when one or both of the list moderators are out of town
or otherwise unable to access their computers.)  Don't respond
to them.  If you respond and then realize they're a troll or
sockpuppet, don't keep responding.

What they want most is to cause a ruckus.  Don't let them.

8. Ad hominem (personal) attacks.  If you do this too much,
and the list moderators might ban you for being disruptive; you
will be warned and put on moderated status first should this
issue actually arise.

Calling anyone mean, or stupid, or fat - those are the obvious
types of personal attack.

Talking about who's in who else's kill file is a no-no.

Attributing a lack of intelligence, adulthood, tact, etc. to
particular individuals is a no-no.

Accusing list members of being puppeteers (the people behind a
sockpuppet) is a no-no.

Asking someone *directly*, in a response to a post they have
made, if they are a sockpuppet is allowed, as is asking them if
they are a puppeteer.  (You should be aware that such questions
often turn into flamewars.)

Saying things like "I *could* call you [insult], but I won't"
counts as saying that thing.

Heated discussion is fine. Arguments that result in lifelong
fannish enmity due to political positions on slash, gen, het, or
Joe's brand of hair gel are also fine. Attacking other people is
NOT fine.  Don't do it.

9. Threats.  These can get you banned from the list
immediately.  No pardon, no appeal. The list moderators don't
want to stop people from expressing themselves in a free &
raucous manner, but anything that might be construed as a threat
of violence has to be done (a) in a humorous manner *and* (b)
only to your closest friends. So if, for instance, Mary Ellen
says something outrageous, Laura can write: "OK, that's it, I'm
sending Caspian to your house for breakfast." and trust it will
be clear to all that no actual rancor is involved. If it might
not be clear to all that your threats are only in fun, DO NOT
POST. Specifically, do not post if you are making joking threats
to someone to whom you do not consider yourself close.

If you are actually close friends but the list has no reason to
know it, you need to say something like, "Speaking as one of
your close friends, I'll rip your head off with a spoon."

The list moderators have no wish to be as humorless as airport
security guards, but they have to take seriously-phrased threats
seriously.

10. Flamewars.  Don't participate.  They are no one's friend.

11. Real Person Fiction and MiSTs.

Discussion of Real Person Fic or ideas, like every other kind of
writing or ideas, is not out of bounds on CritEdge. Posters
should be aware that these are contentious issues and some
people may get upset. No topic will be ruled OT on the grounds
that it is upsetting.

Line-by-line critiques are permitted.  The list moderators
prefer other forms of criticism.  Out and out MiSTS (fiction
mocking the other story in a line-by-line way) are not; they are
fiction, not critique.

12. Zine Stories. On-topic. Go ahead and yammer away. Just make
sure to label the posts, so that those who don't have the zine
and don't want to be spoiled (or who *do* want to be spoiled)
can avoid (or gobble up) the posts.

You can label in the subject line (probably the kindest way to
do it, especially for those list members on slow connections) or
put a note in the first line of your post that you're discussing
[Name of Zine] or [Story from Name of Zine]. You can also put in
spoiler space if you like, but it's not required.


Other Information:

A. What happens when someone violates a list rule?

That person's post may be the subject of an ADMIN post, the
person may be contacted about the violation offlist, the person
may be set on moderated status, or the admins may decide that
the provocation was sufficient.

Usually that last never comes into play unless the person is a
longtime listmember with a history of obeying the list rules but
violates one because of extreme circumstances.

B. What will get an ADMIN post?

When someone violates a list rule, they *usually*, though not
always, have done one of four things.

1. they have posted something off-topic without labelling it
such
2. they have made a personal attack in a way that warrants on-
list commentary from us
3. they are participating in a flamewar
4. they have made a personal attack in a way that does not
warrant on-list commentary from us.

Areas 1 through 3 are likely to get an ADMIN post.

Area 2 and Area 4 are where the interesting bits come in: what
warrants commentary? Generally, what is going to get an ADMIN
post falls into three areas:

1. a comment which is really incredibly nasty, such as implying
that someone is a rapist, murderer, pedophile, etc. based on
either their posts or their fiction
2. a comment made obliquely or that appears to be an attempt to
disguise an insult.
3. a comment not as nasty as A, but which the poster has a habit
of making, especially if they direct such attack against a
particular person repeatedly.

Anything outside of these three areas is unlikely to get an
ADMIN-post addressing it; usually, the poster just receives a
note off-list telling them what they did, and asking them not to
do it again.

The list moderators *do* try to keep the ADMIN'ing down, and
keeping some of it off-list helps with that. The list is fairly
volatile but not, generally speaking, unmanageable or prone to
spontaneous hostility; a great deal of comments in Area 4 are
just poor wording choices or heat-of-the-moment-thoughtlessness.

The list moderators try to apply these rules fairly; they'd like
their frequent opponents to be as comfortable here as their
frequent supporters.

C. What will get someone set on moderated status?

Moderated status is at the administrators' discretion.  Anything
that garners an ADMIN post can also get you moderated.  Repeated
and persistent disruption of the list can get you moderated.
Ignoring an admin post can get you moderated. Making the admins
lose sleep over your behavior can get you moderated.

It's not something we like to do, but we will if we have to.

D. What will get you banned?

Trying to get around moderated status by posting from another
account will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.  Making
death threats on-list will get you banned.  Engaging in
sockpuppetry will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.
Repeated and persistent disruption of the list can get you banned.
If we have to moderate you repeatedly, we may ban you to save
ourselves the headache of dealing with you.

Rules of the Game

1. Criticism.  Serious, not serious, sound drubbings, round
mockings, and utter gushing - all allowed.  No, really. Gen,
het, and slash discussion is permitted, and no character or
pairing is privileged or forbidden.

2. Purpose.  Contrary to what some people seem to believe, we
are not here to workshop writers.  There are other lists for
that.  Criticism is by readers, for readers; we don't care if
the author knows about the critique or not, and although we
certainly don't object to authorial participation, CritEdge is
not a forum for authors in terms of criticism.

It is a forum for authors in terms of research and resources.
Because HL canon theoretically encompasses all of history and a
cast of billions, discussions of history, culture, and fencing
are as on-topic as Whether Methos Really Only Drinks Beer
Onscreen (he doesn't).

3. The Mannerly Art of Critique. "The Mannerly Art of
Critique" is a document that has been around for quite some time
in the newsgroups the list moderators started reading and
critiquing fan fiction.

In general, it is an excellent guide for how to have critical
discussions without degenerating into personal attacks. It is
also a piece of material that the list moderators didn't want to
lift entire chunks from wholesale, nor did they want to rewrite
it; further, the entire document is phrased as suggestions, not
as hard-and-fast rules.  The list moderators *are* rewriting it
for this list, but it's a slow process.

To address a specific issue in the current form of the document:
"The Mannerly Art of Critique" contains the following:

"Only crit those who have INVITED crit, or who have given you
permission when you ask."

This is *not* policy on this list. The list moderators consider
the very act of having made a piece of fanfiction available as
both invitation and permission to critique; no specific
permission is necessary.

4. Post trimming.  Please cut out irrelevant things from your
responses. It's annoying to have to read through the entire
previous post (or more!) to get to whatever a new poster has to
say.  This is extra-courteous for those who are on digest, or
who have to pay for online time or by the amount downloaded.

5. Metadiscussion.  This is a big one.  Many lists ban it;
CriticalEdge does not.

What this means: you can talk about discussion - how to write
criticism, why to write criticism, whether you like the tone of
a particular piece of criticism.

What it doesn't mean is that it's a free-for-all.  It's not.
Personal attacks are off-limits; telling people they *cannot* or
*should not* criticize is not permitted.

"I don't like the tone of your critique" is fine.  "I don't
think you should write critique" is not.

6. No one except one of the list moderators has the right to
tell any members of the list to play nice. Even if you really
wish other members of the list would play nice--well, you can
*ask* them to play nice, but you're not going to get backup from
this quarter.

Basically, the rule here is "play as mean as you want, as long
as you don't make ad hominem attacks or threats." Think of it as
a rough soccer game. Violence allowed, but sportsmanship counts.

7. Sockpuppets and trolls.  Historically, we have a problem
with these.  (They are especially fond of emerging from the
woodwork when one or both of the list moderators are out of town
or otherwise unable to access their computers.)  Don't respond
to them.  If you respond and then realize they're a troll or
sockpuppet, don't keep responding.

What they want most is to cause a ruckus.  Don't let them.

8. Ad hominem (personal) attacks.  If you do this too much,
and the list moderators might ban you for being disruptive; you
will be warned and put on moderated status first should this
issue actually arise.

Calling anyone mean, or stupid, or fat - those are the obvious
types of personal attack.

Talking about who's in who else's kill file is a no-no.

Attributing a lack of intelligence, adulthood, tact, etc. to
particular individuals is a no-no.

Accusing list members of being puppeteers (the people behind a
sockpuppet) is a no-no.

Asking someone *directly*, in a response to a post they have
made, if they are a sockpuppet is allowed, as is asking them if
they are a puppeteer.  (You should be aware that such questions
often turn into flamewars.)

Saying things like "I *could* call you [insult], but I won't"
counts as saying that thing.

Heated discussion is fine. Arguments that result in lifelong
fannish enmity due to political positions on slash, gen, het, or
Joe's brand of hair gel are also fine. Attacking other people is
NOT fine.  Don't do it.

9. Threats.  These can get you banned from the list
immediately.  No pardon, no appeal. The list moderators don't
want to stop people from expressing themselves in a free &
raucous manner, but anything that might be construed as a threat
of violence has to be done (a) in a humorous manner *and* (b)
only to your closest friends. So if, for instance, Mary Ellen
says something outrageous, Laura can write: "OK, that's it, I'm
sending Caspian to your house for breakfast." and trust it will
be clear to all that no actual rancor is involved. If it might
not be clear to all that your threats are only in fun, DO NOT
POST. Specifically, do not post if you are making joking threats
to someone to whom you do not consider yourself close.

If you are actually close friends but the list has no reason to
know it, you need to say something like, "Speaking as one of
your close friends, I'll rip your head off with a spoon."

The list moderators have no wish to be as humorless as airport
security guards, but they have to take seriously-phrased threats
seriously.

10. Flamewars.  Don't participate.  They are no one's friend.

11. Real Person Fiction and MiSTs.

Discussion of Real Person Fic or ideas, like every other kind of
writing or ideas, is not out of bounds on CritEdge. Posters
should be aware that these are contentious issues and some
people may get upset. No topic will be ruled OT on the grounds
that it is upsetting.

Line-by-line critiques are permitted.  The list moderators
prefer other forms of criticism.  Out and out MiSTS (fiction
mocking the other story in a line-by-line way) are not; they are
fiction, not critique.

12. Zine Stories. On-topic. Go ahead and yammer away. Just make
sure to label the posts, so that those who don't have the zine
and don't want to be spoiled (or who *do* want to be spoiled)
can avoid (or gobble up) the posts.

You can label in the subject line (probably the kindest way to
do it, especially for those list members on slow connections) or
put a note in the first line of your post that you're discussing
[Name of Zine] or [Story from Name of Zine]. You can also put in
spoiler space if you like, but it's not required.


Other Information:

A. What happens when someone violates a list rule?

That person's post may be the subject of an ADMIN post, the
person may be contacted about the violation offlist, the person
may be set on moderated status, or the admins may decide that
the provocation was sufficient.

Usually that last never comes into play unless the person is a
longtime listmember with a history of obeying the list rules but
violates one because of extreme circumstances.

B. What will get an ADMIN post?

When someone violates a list rule, they *usually*, though not
always, have done one of four things.

1. they have posted something off-topic without labelling it
such
2. they have made a personal attack in a way that warrants on-
list commentary from us
3. they are participating in a flamewar
4. they have made a personal attack in a way that does not
warrant on-list commentary from us.

Areas 1 through 3 are likely to get an ADMIN post.

Area 2 and Area 4 are where the interesting bits come in: what
warrants commentary? Generally, what is going to get an ADMIN
post falls into three areas:

1. a comment which is really incredibly nasty, such as implying
that someone is a rapist, murderer, pedophile, etc. based on
either their posts or their fiction
2. a comment made obliquely or that appears to be an attempt to
disguise an insult.
3. a comment not as nasty as A, but which the poster has a habit
of making, especially if they direct such attack against a
particular person repeatedly.

Anything outside of these three areas is unlikely to get an
ADMIN-post addressing it; usually, the poster just receives a
note off-list telling them what they did, and asking them not to
do it again.

The list moderators *do* try to keep the ADMIN'ing down, and
keeping some of it off-list helps with that. The list is fairly
volatile but not, generally speaking, unmanageable or prone to
spontaneous hostility; a great deal of comments in Area 4 are
just poor wording choices or heat-of-the-moment-thoughtlessness.

The list moderators try to apply these rules fairly; they'd like
their frequent opponents to be as comfortable here as their
frequent supporters.

C. What will get someone set on moderated status?

Moderated status is at the administrators' discretion.  Anything
that garners an ADMIN post can also get you moderated.  Repeated
and persistent disruption of the list can get you moderated.
Ignoring an admin post can get you moderated. Making the admins
lose sleep over your behavior can get you moderated.

It's not something we like to do, but we will if we have to.

D. What will get you banned?

Trying to get around moderated status by posting from another
account will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.  Making
death threats on-list will get you banned.  Engaging in
sockpuppetry will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.
Repeated and persistent disruption of the list can get you banned.
If we have to moderate you repeatedly, we may ban you to save
ourselves the headache of dealing with you.

Rules of the Game

1. Criticism.  Serious, not serious, sound drubbings, round
mockings, and utter gushing - all allowed.  No, really. Gen,
het, and slash discussion is permitted, and no character or
pairing is privileged or forbidden.

2. Purpose.  Contrary to what some people seem to believe, we
are not here to workshop writers.  There are other lists for
that.  Criticism is by readers, for readers; we don't care if
the author knows about the critique or not, and although we
certainly don't object to authorial participation, CritEdge is
not a forum for authors in terms of criticism.

It is a forum for authors in terms of research and resources.
Because HL canon theoretically encompasses all of history and a
cast of billions, discussions of history, culture, and fencing
are as on-topic as Whether Methos Really Only Drinks Beer
Onscreen (he doesn't).

3. The Mannerly Art of Critique. "The Mannerly Art of
Critique" is a document that has been around for quite some time
in the newsgroups the list moderators started reading and
critiquing fan fiction.

In general, it is an excellent guide for how to have critical
discussions without degenerating into personal attacks. It is
also a piece of material that the list moderators didn't want to
lift entire chunks from wholesale, nor did they want to rewrite
it; further, the entire document is phrased as suggestions, not
as hard-and-fast rules.  The list moderators *are* rewriting it
for this list, but it's a slow process.

To address a specific issue in the current form of the document:
"The Mannerly Art of Critique" contains the following:

"Only crit those who have INVITED crit, or who have given you
permission when you ask."

This is *not* policy on this list. The list moderators consider
the very act of having made a piece of fanfiction available as
both invitation and permission to critique; no specific
permission is necessary.

4. Post trimming.  Please cut out irrelevant things from your
responses. It's annoying to have to read through the entire
previous post (or more!) to get to whatever a new poster has to
say.  This is extra-courteous for those who are on digest, or
who have to pay for online time or by the amount downloaded.

5. Metadiscussion.  This is a big one.  Many lists ban it;
CriticalEdge does not.

What this means: you can talk about discussion - how to write
criticism, why to write criticism, whether you like the tone of
a particular piece of criticism.

What it doesn't mean is that it's a free-for-all.  It's not.
Personal attacks are off-limits; telling people they *cannot* or
*should not* criticize is not permitted.

"I don't like the tone of your critique" is fine.  "I don't
think you should write critique" is not.

6. No one except one of the list moderators has the right to
tell any members of the list to play nice. Even if you really
wish other members of the list would play nice--well, you can
*ask* them to play nice, but you're not going to get backup from
this quarter.

Basically, the rule here is "play as mean as you want, as long
as you don't make ad hominem attacks or threats." Think of it as
a rough soccer game. Violence allowed, but sportsmanship counts.

7. Sockpuppets and trolls.  Historically, we have a problem
with these.  (They are especially fond of emerging from the
woodwork when one or both of the list moderators are out of town
or otherwise unable to access their computers.)  Don't respond
to them.  If you respond and then realize they're a troll or
sockpuppet, don't keep responding.

What they want most is to cause a ruckus.  Don't let them.

8. Ad hominem (personal) attacks.  If you do this too much,
and the list moderators might ban you for being disruptive; you
will be warned and put on moderated status first should this
issue actually arise.

Calling anyone mean, or stupid, or fat - those are the obvious
types of personal attack.

Talking about who's in who else's kill file is a no-no.

Attributing a lack of intelligence, adulthood, tact, etc. to
particular individuals is a no-no.

Accusing list members of being puppeteers (the people behind a
sockpuppet) is a no-no.

Asking someone *directly*, in a response to a post they have
made, if they are a sockpuppet is allowed, as is asking them if
they are a puppeteer.  (You should be aware that such questions
often turn into flamewars.)

Saying things like "I *could* call you [insult], but I won't"
counts as saying that thing.

Heated discussion is fine. Arguments that result in lifelong
fannish enmity due to political positions on slash, gen, het, or
Joe's brand of hair gel are also fine. Attacking other people is
NOT fine.  Don't do it.

9. Threats.  These can get you banned from the list
immediately.  No pardon, no appeal. The list moderators don't
want to stop people from expressing themselves in a free &
raucous manner, but anything that might be construed as a threat
of violence has to be done (a) in a humorous manner *and* (b)
only to your closest friends. So if, for instance, Mary Ellen
says something outrageous, Laura can write: "OK, that's it, I'm
sending Caspian to your house for breakfast." and trust it will
be clear to all that no actual rancor is involved. If it might
not be clear to all that your threats are only in fun, DO NOT
POST. Specifically, do not post if you are making joking threats
to someone to whom you do not consider yourself close.

If you are actually close friends but the list has no reason to
know it, you need to say something like, "Speaking as one of
your close friends, I'll rip your head off with a spoon."

The list moderators have no wish to be as humorless as airport
security guards, but they have to take seriously-phrased threats
seriously.

10. Flamewars.  Don't participate.  They are no one's friend.

11. Real Person Fiction and MiSTs.

Discussion of Real Person Fic or ideas, like every other kind of
writing or ideas, is not out of bounds on CritEdge. Posters
should be aware that these are contentious issues and some
people may get upset. No topic will be ruled OT on the grounds
that it is upsetting.

Line-by-line critiques are permitted.  The list moderators
prefer other forms of criticism.  Out and out MiSTS (fiction
mocking the other story in a line-by-line way) are not; they are
fiction, not critique.

12. Zine Stories. On-topic. Go ahead and yammer away. Just make
sure to label the posts, so that those who don't have the zine
and don't want to be spoiled (or who *do* want to be spoiled)
can avoid (or gobble up) the posts.

You can label in the subject line (probably the kindest way to
do it, especially for those list members on slow connections) or
put a note in the first line of your post that you're discussing
[Name of Zine] or [Story from Name of Zine]. You can also put in
spoiler space if you like, but it's not required.


Other Information:

A. What happens when someone violates a list rule?

That person's post may be the subject of an ADMIN post, the
person may be contacted about the violation offlist, the person
may be set on moderated status, or the admins may decide that
the provocation was sufficient.

Usually that last never comes into play unless the person is a
longtime listmember with a history of obeying the list rules but
violates one because of extreme circumstances.

B. What will get an ADMIN post?

When someone violates a list rule, they *usually*, though not
always, have done one of four things.

1. they have posted something off-topic without labelling it
such
2. they have made a personal attack in a way that warrants on-
list commentary from us
3. they are participating in a flamewar
4. they have made a personal attack in a way that does not
warrant on-list commentary from us.

Areas 1 through 3 are likely to get an ADMIN post.

Area 2 and Area 4 are where the interesting bits come in: what
warrants commentary? Generally, what is going to get an ADMIN
post falls into three areas:

1. a comment which is really incredibly nasty, such as implying
that someone is a rapist, murderer, pedophile, etc. based on
either their posts or their fiction
2. a comment made obliquely or that appears to be an attempt to
disguise an insult.
3. a comment not as nasty as A, but which the poster has a habit
of making, especially if they direct such attack against a
particular person repeatedly.

Anything outside of these three areas is unlikely to get an
ADMIN-post addressing it; usually, the poster just receives a
note off-list telling them what they did, and asking them not to
do it again.

The list moderators *do* try to keep the ADMIN'ing down, and
keeping some of it off-list helps with that. The list is fairly
volatile but not, generally speaking, unmanageable or prone to
spontaneous hostility; a great deal of comments in Area 4 are
just poor wording choices or heat-of-the-moment-thoughtlessness.

The list moderators try to apply these rules fairly; they'd like
their frequent opponents to be as comfortable here as their
frequent supporters.

C. What will get someone set on moderated status?

Moderated status is at the administrators' discretion.  Anything
that garners an ADMIN post can also get you moderated.  Repeated
and persistent disruption of the list can get you moderated.
Ignoring an admin post can get you moderated. Making the admins
lose sleep over your behavior can get you moderated.

It's not something we like to do, but we will if we have to.

D. What will get you banned?

Trying to get around moderated status by posting from another
account will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.  Making
death threats on-list will get you banned.  Engaging in
sockpuppetry will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.
Repeated and persistent disruption of the list can get you banned.
If we have to moderate you repeatedly, we may ban you to save
ourselves the headache of dealing with you.

Rules of the Game

1. Criticism.  Serious, not serious, sound drubbings, round
mockings, and utter gushing - all allowed.  No, really. Gen,
het, and slash discussion is permitted, and no character or
pairing is privileged or forbidden.

2. Purpose.  Contrary to what some people seem to believe, we
are not here to workshop writers.  There are other lists for
that.  Criticism is by readers, for readers; we don't care if
the author knows about the critique or not, and although we
certainly don't object to authorial participation, CritEdge is
not a forum for authors in terms of criticism.

It is a forum for authors in terms of research and resources.
Because HL canon theoretically encompasses all of history and a
cast of billions, discussions of history, culture, and fencing
are as on-topic as Whether Methos Really Only Drinks Beer
Onscreen (he doesn't).

3. The Mannerly Art of Critique. "The Mannerly Art of
Critique" is a document that has been around for quite some time
in the newsgroups the list moderators started reading and
critiquing fan fiction.

In general, it is an excellent guide for how to have critical
discussions without degenerating into personal attacks. It is
also a piece of material that the list moderators didn't want to
lift entire chunks from wholesale, nor did they want to rewrite
it; further, the entire document is phrased as suggestions, not
as hard-and-fast rules.  The list moderators *are* rewriting it
for this list, but it's a slow process.

To address a specific issue in the current form of the document:
"The Mannerly Art of Critique" contains the following:

"Only crit those who have INVITED crit, or who have given you
permission when you ask."

This is *not* policy on this list. The list moderators consider
the very act of having made a piece of fanfiction available as
both invitation and permission to critique; no specific
permission is necessary.

4. Post trimming.  Please cut out irrelevant things from your
responses. It's annoying to have to read through the entire
previous post (or more!) to get to whatever a new poster has to
say.  This is extra-courteous for those who are on digest, or
who have to pay for online time or by the amount downloaded.

5. Metadiscussion.  This is a big one.  Many lists ban it;
CriticalEdge does not.

What this means: you can talk about discussion - how to write
criticism, why to write criticism, whether you like the tone of
a particular piece of criticism.

What it doesn't mean is that it's a free-for-all.  It's not.
Personal attacks are off-limits; telling people they *cannot* or
*should not* criticize is not permitted.

"I don't like the tone of your critique" is fine.  "I don't
think you should write critique" is not.

6. No one except one of the list moderators has the right to
tell any members of the list to play nice. Even if you really
wish other members of the list would play nice--well, you can
*ask* them to play nice, but you're not going to get backup from
this quarter.

Basically, the rule here is "play as mean as you want, as long
as you don't make ad hominem attacks or threats." Think of it as
a rough soccer game. Violence allowed, but sportsmanship counts.

7. Sockpuppets and trolls.  Historically, we have a problem
with these.  (They are especially fond of emerging from the
woodwork when one or both of the list moderators are out of town
or otherwise unable to access their computers.)  Don't respond
to them.  If you respond and then realize they're a troll or
sockpuppet, don't keep responding.

What they want most is to cause a ruckus.  Don't let them.

8. Ad hominem (personal) attacks.  If you do this too much,
and the list moderators might ban you for being disruptive; you
will be warned and put on moderated status first should this
issue actually arise.

Calling anyone mean, or stupid, or fat - those are the obvious
types of personal attack.

Talking about who's in who else's kill file is a no-no.

Attributing a lack of intelligence, adulthood, tact, etc. to
particular individuals is a no-no.

Accusing list members of being puppeteers (the people behind a
sockpuppet) is a no-no.

Asking someone *directly*, in a response to a post they have
made, if they are a sockpuppet is allowed, as is asking them if
they are a puppeteer.  (You should be aware that such questions
often turn into flamewars.)

Saying things like "I *could* call you [insult], but I won't"
counts as saying that thing.

Heated discussion is fine. Arguments that result in lifelong
fannish enmity due to political positions on slash, gen, het, or
Joe's brand of hair gel are also fine. Attacking other people is
NOT fine.  Don't do it.

9. Threats.  These can get you banned from the list
immediately.  No pardon, no appeal. The list moderators don't
want to stop people from expressing themselves in a free &
raucous manner, but anything that might be construed as a threat
of violence has to be done (a) in a humorous manner *and* (b)
only to your closest friends. So if, for instance, Mary Ellen
says something outrageous, Laura can write: "OK, that's it, I'm
sending Caspian to your house for breakfast." and trust it will
be clear to all that no actual rancor is involved. If it might
not be clear to all that your threats are only in fun, DO NOT
POST. Specifically, do not post if you are making joking threats
to someone to whom you do not consider yourself close.

If you are actually close friends but the list has no reason to
know it, you need to say something like, "Speaking as one of
your close friends, I'll rip your head off with a spoon."

The list moderators have no wish to be as humorless as airport
security guards, but they have to take seriously-phrased threats
seriously.

10. Flamewars.  Don't participate.  They are no one's friend.

11. Real Person Fiction and MiSTs.

Discussion of Real Person Fic or ideas, like every other kind of
writing or ideas, is not out of bounds on CritEdge. Posters
should be aware that these are contentious issues and some
people may get upset. No topic will be ruled OT on the grounds
that it is upsetting.

Line-by-line critiques are permitted.  The list moderators
prefer other forms of criticism.  Out and out MiSTS (fiction
mocking the other story in a line-by-line way) are not; they are
fiction, not critique.

12. Zine Stories. On-topic. Go ahead and yammer away. Just make
sure to label the posts, so that those who don't have the zine
and don't want to be spoiled (or who *do* want to be spoiled)
can avoid (or gobble up) the posts.

You can label in the subject line (probably the kindest way to
do it, especially for those list members on slow connections) or
put a note in the first line of your post that you're discussing
[Name of Zine] or [Story from Name of Zine]. You can also put in
spoiler space if you like, but it's not required.


Other Information:

A. What happens when someone violates a list rule?

That person's post may be the subject of an ADMIN post, the
person may be contacted about the violation offlist, the person
may be set on moderated status, or the admins may decide that
the provocation was sufficient.

Usually that last never comes into play unless the person is a
longtime listmember with a history of obeying the list rules but
violates one because of extreme circumstances.

B. What will get an ADMIN post?

When someone violates a list rule, they *usually*, though not
always, have done one of four things.

1. they have posted something off-topic without labelling it
such
2. they have made a personal attack in a way that warrants on-
list commentary from us
3. they are participating in a flamewar
4. they have made a personal attack in a way that does not
warrant on-list commentary from us.

Areas 1 through 3 are likely to get an ADMIN post.

Area 2 and Area 4 are where the interesting bits come in: what
warrants commentary? Generally, what is going to get an ADMIN
post falls into three areas:

1. a comment which is really incredibly nasty, such as implying
that someone is a rapist, murderer, pedophile, etc. based on
either their posts or their fiction
2. a comment made obliquely or that appears to be an attempt to
disguise an insult.
3. a comment not as nasty as A, but which the poster has a habit
of making, especially if they direct such attack against a
particular person repeatedly.

Anything outside of these three areas is unlikely to get an
ADMIN-post addressing it; usually, the poster just receives a
note off-list telling them what they did, and asking them not to
do it again.

The list moderators *do* try to keep the ADMIN'ing down, and
keeping some of it off-list helps with that. The list is fairly
volatile but not, generally speaking, unmanageable or prone to
spontaneous hostility; a great deal of comments in Area 4 are
just poor wording choices or heat-of-the-moment-thoughtlessness.

The list moderators try to apply these rules fairly; they'd like
their frequent opponents to be as comfortable here as their
frequent supporters.

C. What will get someone set on moderated status?

Moderated status is at the administrators' discretion.  Anything
that garners an ADMIN post can also get you moderated.  Repeated
and persistent disruption of the list can get you moderated.
Ignoring an admin post can get you moderated. Making the admins
lose sleep over your behavior can get you moderated.

It's not something we like to do, but we will if we have to.

D. What will get you banned?

Trying to get around moderated status by posting from another
account will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.  Making
death threats on-list will get you banned.  Engaging in
sockpuppetry will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.
Repeated and persistent disruption of the list can get you banned.
If we have to moderate you repeatedly, we may ban you to save
ourselves the headache of dealing with you.

Rules of the Game

1. Criticism.  Serious, not serious, sound drubbings, round
mockings, and utter gushing - all allowed.  No, really. Gen,
het, and slash discussion is permitted, and no character or
pairing is privileged or forbidden.

2. Purpose.  Contrary to what some people seem to believe, we
are not here to workshop writers.  There are other lists for
that.  Criticism is by readers, for readers; we don't care if
the author knows about the critique or not, and although we
certainly don't object to authorial participation, CritEdge is
not a forum for authors in terms of criticism.

It is a forum for authors in terms of research and resources.
Because HL canon theoretically encompasses all of history and a
cast of billions, discussions of history, culture, and fencing
are as on-topic as Whether Methos Really Only Drinks Beer
Onscreen (he doesn't).

3. The Mannerly Art of Critique. "The Mannerly Art of
Critique" is a document that has been around for quite some time
in the newsgroups the list moderators started reading and
critiquing fan fiction.

In general, it is an excellent guide for how to have critical
discussions without degenerating into personal attacks. It is
also a piece of material that the list moderators didn't want to
lift entire chunks from wholesale, nor did they want to rewrite
it; further, the entire document is phrased as suggestions, not
as hard-and-fast rules.  The list moderators *are* rewriting it
for this list, but it's a slow process.

To address a specific issue in the current form of the document:
"The Mannerly Art of Critique" contains the following:

"Only crit those who have INVITED crit, or who have given you
permission when you ask."

This is *not* policy on this list. The list moderators consider
the very act of having made a piece of fanfiction available as
both invitation and permission to critique; no specific
permission is necessary.

4. Post trimming.  Please cut out irrelevant things from your
responses. It's annoying to have to read through the entire
previous post (or more!) to get to whatever a new poster has to
say.  This is extra-courteous for those who are on digest, or
who have to pay for online time or by the amount downloaded.

5. Metadiscussion.  This is a big one.  Many lists ban it;
CriticalEdge does not.

What this means: you can talk about discussion - how to write
criticism, why to write criticism, whether you like the tone of
a particular piece of criticism.

What it doesn't mean is that it's a free-for-all.  It's not.
Personal attacks are off-limits; telling people they *cannot* or
*should not* criticize is not permitted.

"I don't like the tone of your critique" is fine.  "I don't
think you should write critique" is not.

6. No one except one of the list moderators has the right to
tell any members of the list to play nice. Even if you really
wish other members of the list would play nice--well, you can
*ask* them to play nice, but you're not going to get backup from
this quarter.

Basically, the rule here is "play as mean as you want, as long
as you don't make ad hominem attacks or threats." Think of it as
a rough soccer game. Violence allowed, but sportsmanship counts.

7. Sockpuppets and trolls.  Historically, we have a problem
with these.  (They are especially fond of emerging from the
woodwork when one or both of the list moderators are out of town
or otherwise unable to access their computers.)  Don't respond
to them.  If you respond and then realize they're a troll or
sockpuppet, don't keep responding.

What they want most is to cause a ruckus.  Don't let them.

8. Ad hominem (personal) attacks.  If you do this too much,
and the list moderators might ban you for being disruptive; you
will be warned and put on moderated status first should this
issue actually arise.

Calling anyone mean, or stupid, or fat - those are the obvious
types of personal attack.

Talking about who's in who else's kill file is a no-no.

Attributing a lack of intelligence, adulthood, tact, etc. to
particular individuals is a no-no.

Accusing list members of being puppeteers (the people behind a
sockpuppet) is a no-no.

Asking someone *directly*, in a response to a post they have
made, if they are a sockpuppet is allowed, as is asking them if
they are a puppeteer.  (You should be aware that such questions
often turn into flamewars.)

Saying things like "I *could* call you [insult], but I won't"
counts as saying that thing.

Heated discussion is fine. Arguments that result in lifelong
fannish enmity due to political positions on slash, gen, het, or
Joe's brand of hair gel are also fine. Attacking other people is
NOT fine.  Don't do it.

9. Threats.  These can get you banned from the list
immediately.  No pardon, no appeal. The list moderators don't
want to stop people from expressing themselves in a free &
raucous manner, but anything that might be construed as a threat
of violence has to be done (a) in a humorous manner *and* (b)
only to your closest friends. So if, for instance, Mary Ellen
says something outrageous, Laura can write: "OK, that's it, I'm
sending Caspian to your house for breakfast." and trust it will
be clear to all that no actual rancor is involved. If it might
not be clear to all that your threats are only in fun, DO NOT
POST. Specifically, do not post if you are making joking threats
to someone to whom you do not consider yourself close.

If you are actually close friends but the list has no reason to
know it, you need to say something like, "Speaking as one of
your close friends, I'll rip your head off with a spoon."

The list moderators have no wish to be as humorless as airport
security guards, but they have to take seriously-phrased threats
seriously.

10. Flamewars.  Don't participate.  They are no one's friend.

11. Real Person Fiction and MiSTs.

Discussion of Real Person Fic or ideas, like every other kind of
writing or ideas, is not out of bounds on CritEdge. Posters
should be aware that these are contentious issues and some
people may get upset. No topic will be ruled OT on the grounds
that it is upsetting.

Line-by-line critiques are permitted.  The list moderators
prefer other forms of criticism.  Out and out MiSTS (fiction
mocking the other story in a line-by-line way) are not; they are
fiction, not critique.

12. Zine Stories. On-topic. Go ahead and yammer away. Just make
sure to label the posts, so that those who don't have the zine
and don't want to be spoiled (or who *do* want to be spoiled)
can avoid (or gobble up) the posts.

You can label in the subject line (probably the kindest way to
do it, especially for those list members on slow connections) or
put a note in the first line of your post that you're discussing
[Name of Zine] or [Story from Name of Zine]. You can also put in
spoiler space if you like, but it's not required.


Other Information:

A. What happens when someone violates a list rule?

That person's post may be the subject of an ADMIN post, the
person may be contacted about the violation offlist, the person
may be set on moderated status, or the admins may decide that
the provocation was sufficient.

Usually that last never comes into play unless the person is a
longtime listmember with a history of obeying the list rules but
violates one because of extreme circumstances.

B. What will get an ADMIN post?

When someone violates a list rule, they *usually*, though not
always, have done one of four things.

1. they have posted something off-topic without labelling it
such
2. they have made a personal attack in a way that warrants on-
list commentary from us
3. they are participating in a flamewar
4. they have made a personal attack in a way that does not
warrant on-list commentary from us.

Areas 1 through 3 are likely to get an ADMIN post.

Area 2 and Area 4 are where the interesting bits come in: what
warrants commentary? Generally, what is going to get an ADMIN
post falls into three areas:

1. a comment which is really incredibly nasty, such as implying
that someone is a rapist, murderer, pedophile, etc. based on
either their posts or their fiction
2. a comment made obliquely or that appears to be an attempt to
disguise an insult.
3. a comment not as nasty as A, but which the poster has a habit
of making, especially if they direct such attack against a
particular person repeatedly.

Anything outside of these three areas is unlikely to get an
ADMIN-post addressing it; usually, the poster just receives a
note off-list telling them what they did, and asking them not to
do it again.

The list moderators *do* try to keep the ADMIN'ing down, and
keeping some of it off-list helps with that. The list is fairly
volatile but not, generally speaking, unmanageable or prone to
spontaneous hostility; a great deal of comments in Area 4 are
just poor wording choices or heat-of-the-moment-thoughtlessness.

The list moderators try to apply these rules fairly; they'd like
their frequent opponents to be as comfortable here as their
frequent supporters.

C. What will get someone set on moderated status?

Moderated status is at the administrators' discretion.  Anything
that garners an ADMIN post can also get you moderated.  Repeated
and persistent disruption of the list can get you moderated.
Ignoring an admin post can get you moderated. Making the admins
lose sleep over your behavior can get you moderated.

It's not something we like to do, but we will if we have to.

D. What will get you banned?

Trying to get around moderated status by posting from another
account will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.  Making
death threats on-list will get you banned.  Engaging in
sockpuppetry will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.
Repeated and persistent disruption of the list can get you banned.
If we have to moderate you repeatedly, we may ban you to save
ourselves the headache of dealing with you.

Rules of the Game

1. Criticism.  Serious, not serious, sound drubbings, round
mockings, and utter gushing - all allowed.  No, really. Gen,
het, and slash discussion is permitted, and no character or
pairing is privileged or forbidden.

2. Purpose.  Contrary to what some people seem to believe, we
are not here to workshop writers.  There are other lists for
that.  Criticism is by readers, for readers; we don't care if
the author knows about the critique or not, and although we
certainly don't object to authorial participation, CritEdge is
not a forum for authors in terms of criticism.

It is a forum for authors in terms of research and resources.
Because HL canon theoretically encompasses all of history and a
cast of billions, discussions of history, culture, and fencing
are as on-topic as Whether Methos Really Only Drinks Beer
Onscreen (he doesn't).

3. The Mannerly Art of Critique. "The Mannerly Art of
Critique" is a document that has been around for quite some time
in the newsgroups the list moderators started reading and
critiquing fan fiction.

In general, it is an excellent guide for how to have critical
discussions without degenerating into personal attacks. It is
also a piece of material that the list moderators didn't want to
lift entire chunks from wholesale, nor did they want to rewrite
it; further, the entire document is phrased as suggestions, not
as hard-and-fast rules.  The list moderators *are* rewriting it
for this list, but it's a slow process.

To address a specific issue in the current form of the document:
"The Mannerly Art of Critique" contains the following:

"Only crit those who have INVITED crit, or who have given you
permission when you ask."

This is *not* policy on this list. The list moderators consider
the very act of having made a piece of fanfiction available as
both invitation and permission to critique; no specific
permission is necessary.

4. Post trimming.  Please cut out irrelevant things from your
responses. It's annoying to have to read through the entire
previous post (or more!) to get to whatever a new poster has to
say.  This is extra-courteous for those who are on digest, or
who have to pay for online time or by the amount downloaded.

5. Metadiscussion.  This is a big one.  Many lists ban it;
CriticalEdge does not.

What this means: you can talk about discussion - how to write
criticism, why to write criticism, whether you like the tone of
a particular piece of criticism.

What it doesn't mean is that it's a free-for-all.  It's not.
Personal attacks are off-limits; telling people they *cannot* or
*should not* criticize is not permitted.

"I don't like the tone of your critique" is fine.  "I don't
think you should write critique" is not.

6. No one except one of the list moderators has the right to
tell any members of the list to play nice. Even if you really
wish other members of the list would play nice--well, you can
*ask* them to play nice, but you're not going to get backup from
this quarter.

Basically, the rule here is "play as mean as you want, as long
as you don't make ad hominem attacks or threats." Think of it as
a rough soccer game. Violence allowed, but sportsmanship counts.

7. Sockpuppets and trolls.  Historically, we have a problem
with these.  (They are especially fond of emerging from the
woodwork when one or both of the list moderators are out of town
or otherwise unable to access their computers.)  Don't respond
to them.  If you respond and then realize they're a troll or
sockpuppet, don't keep responding.

What they want most is to cause a ruckus.  Don't let them.

8. Ad hominem (personal) attacks.  If you do this too much,
and the list moderators might ban you for being disruptive; you
will be warned and put on moderated status first should this
issue actually arise.

Calling anyone mean, or stupid, or fat - those are the obvious
types of personal attack.

Talking about who's in who else's kill file is a no-no.

Attributing a lack of intelligence, adulthood, tact, etc. to
particular individuals is a no-no.

Accusing list members of being puppeteers (the people behind a
sockpuppet) is a no-no.

Asking someone *directly*, in a response to a post they have
made, if they are a sockpuppet is allowed, as is asking them if
they are a puppeteer.  (You should be aware that such questions
often turn into flamewars.)

Saying things like "I *could* call you [insult], but I won't"
counts as saying that thing.

Heated discussion is fine. Arguments that result in lifelong
fannish enmity due to political positions on slash, gen, het, or
Joe's brand of hair gel are also fine. Attacking other people is
NOT fine.  Don't do it.

9. Threats.  These can get you banned from the list
immediately.  No pardon, no appeal. The list moderators don't
want to stop people from expressing themselves in a free &
raucous manner, but anything that might be construed as a threat
of violence has to be done (a) in a humorous manner *and* (b)
only to your closest friends. So if, for instance, Mary Ellen
says something outrageous, Laura can write: "OK, that's it, I'm
sending Caspian to your house for breakfast." and trust it will
be clear to all that no actual rancor is involved. If it might
not be clear to all that your threats are only in fun, DO NOT
POST. Specifically, do not post if you are making joking threats
to someone to whom you do not consider yourself close.

If you are actually close friends but the list has no reason to
know it, you need to say something like, "Speaking as one of
your close friends, I'll rip your head off with a spoon."

The list moderators have no wish to be as humorless as airport
security guards, but they have to take seriously-phrased threats
seriously.

10. Flamewars.  Don't participate.  They are no one's friend.

11. Real Person Fiction and MiSTs.

Discussion of Real Person Fic or ideas, like every other kind of
writing or ideas, is not out of bounds on CritEdge. Posters
should be aware that these are contentious issues and some
people may get upset. No topic will be ruled OT on the grounds
that it is upsetting.

Line-by-line critiques are permitted.  The list moderators
prefer other forms of criticism.  Out and out MiSTS (fiction
mocking the other story in a line-by-line way) are not; they are
fiction, not critique.

12. Zine Stories. On-topic. Go ahead and yammer away. Just make
sure to label the posts, so that those who don't have the zine
and don't want to be spoiled (or who *do* want to be spoiled)
can avoid (or gobble up) the posts.

You can label in the subject line (probably the kindest way to
do it, especially for those list members on slow connections) or
put a note in the first line of your post that you're discussing
[Name of Zine] or [Story from Name of Zine]. You can also put in
spoiler space if you like, but it's not required.


Other Information:

A. What happens when someone violates a list rule?

That person's post may be the subject of an ADMIN post, the
person may be contacted about the violation offlist, the person
may be set on moderated status, or the admins may decide that
the provocation was sufficient.

Usually that last never comes into play unless the person is a
longtime listmember with a history of obeying the list rules but
violates one because of extreme circumstances.

B. What will get an ADMIN post?

When someone violates a list rule, they *usually*, though not
always, have done one of four things.

1. they have posted something off-topic without labelling it
such
2. they have made a personal attack in a way that warrants on-
list commentary from us
3. they are participating in a flamewar
4. they have made a personal attack in a way that does not
warrant on-list commentary from us.

Areas 1 through 3 are likely to get an ADMIN post.

Area 2 and Area 4 are where the interesting bits come in: what
warrants commentary? Generally, what is going to get an ADMIN
post falls into three areas:

1. a comment which is really incredibly nasty, such as implying
that someone is a rapist, murderer, pedophile, etc. based on
either their posts or their fiction
2. a comment made obliquely or that appears to be an attempt to
disguise an insult.
3. a comment not as nasty as A, but which the poster has a habit
of making, especially if they direct such attack against a
particular person repeatedly.

Anything outside of these three areas is unlikely to get an
ADMIN-post addressing it; usually, the poster just receives a
note off-list telling them what they did, and asking them not to
do it again.

The list moderators *do* try to keep the ADMIN'ing down, and
keeping some of it off-list helps with that. The list is fairly
volatile but not, generally speaking, unmanageable or prone to
spontaneous hostility; a great deal of comments in Area 4 are
just poor wording choices or heat-of-the-moment-thoughtlessness.

The list moderators try to apply these rules fairly; they'd like
their frequent opponents to be as comfortable here as their
frequent supporters.

C. What will get someone set on moderated status?

Moderated status is at the administrators' discretion.  Anything
that garners an ADMIN post can also get you moderated.  Repeated
and persistent disruption of the list can get you moderated.
Ignoring an admin post can get you moderated. Making the admins
lose sleep over your behavior can get you moderated.

It's not something we like to do, but we will if we have to.

D. What will get you banned?

Trying to get around moderated status by posting from another
account will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.  Making
death threats on-list will get you banned.  Engaging in
sockpuppetry will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.
Repeated and persistent disruption of the list can get you banned.
If we have to moderate you repeatedly, we may ban you to save
ourselves the headache of dealing with you.

Rules of the Game

1. Criticism.  Serious, not serious, sound drubbings, round
mockings, and utter gushing - all allowed.  No, really. Gen,
het, and slash discussion is permitted, and no character or
pairing is privileged or forbidden.

2. Purpose.  Contrary to what some people seem to believe, we
are not here to workshop writers.  There are other lists for
that.  Criticism is by readers, for readers; we don't care if
the author knows about the critique or not, and although we
certainly don't object to authorial participation, CritEdge is
not a forum for authors in terms of criticism.

It is a forum for authors in terms of research and resources.
Because HL canon theoretically encompasses all of history and a
cast of billions, discussions of history, culture, and fencing
are as on-topic as Whether Methos Really Only Drinks Beer
Onscreen (he doesn't).

3. The Mannerly Art of Critique. "The Mannerly Art of
Critique" is a document that has been around for quite some time
in the newsgroups the list moderators started reading and
critiquing fan fiction.

In general, it is an excellent guide for how to have critical
discussions without degenerating into personal attacks. It is
also a piece of material that the list moderators didn't want to
lift entire chunks from wholesale, nor did they want to rewrite
it; further, the entire document is phrased as suggestions, not
as hard-and-fast rules.  The list moderators *are* rewriting it
for this list, but it's a slow process.

To address a specific issue in the current form of the document:
"The Mannerly Art of Critique" contains the following:

"Only crit those who have INVITED crit, or who have given you
permission when you ask."

This is *not* policy on this list. The list moderators consider
the very act of having made a piece of fanfiction available as
both invitation and permission to critique; no specific
permission is necessary.

4. Post trimming.  Please cut out irrelevant things from your
responses. It's annoying to have to read through the entire
previous post (or more!) to get to whatever a new poster has to
say.  This is extra-courteous for those who are on digest, or
who have to pay for online time or by the amount downloaded.

5. Metadiscussion.  This is a big one.  Many lists ban it;
CriticalEdge does not.

What this means: you can talk about discussion - how to write
criticism, why to write criticism, whether you like the tone of
a particular piece of criticism.

What it doesn't mean is that it's a free-for-all.  It's not.
Personal attacks are off-limits; telling people they *cannot* or
*should not* criticize is not permitted.

"I don't like the tone of your critique" is fine.  "I don't
think you should write critique" is not.

6. No one except one of the list moderators has the right to
tell any members of the list to play nice. Even if you really
wish other members of the list would play nice--well, you can
*ask* them to play nice, but you're not going to get backup from
this quarter.

Basically, the rule here is "play as mean as you want, as long
as you don't make ad hominem attacks or threats." Think of it as
a rough soccer game. Violence allowed, but sportsmanship counts.

7. Sockpuppets and trolls.  Historically, we have a problem
with these.  (They are especially fond of emerging from the
woodwork when one or both of the list moderators are out of town
or otherwise unable to access their computers.)  Don't respond
to them.  If you respond and then realize they're a troll or
sockpuppet, don't keep responding.

What they want most is to cause a ruckus.  Don't let them.

8. Ad hominem (personal) attacks.  If you do this too much,
and the list moderators might ban you for being disruptive; you
will be warned and put on moderated status first should this
issue actually arise.

Calling anyone mean, or stupid, or fat - those are the obvious
types of personal attack.

Talking about who's in who else's kill file is a no-no.

Attributing a lack of intelligence, adulthood, tact, etc. to
particular individuals is a no-no.

Accusing list members of being puppeteers (the people behind a
sockpuppet) is a no-no.

Asking someone *directly*, in a response to a post they have
made, if they are a sockpuppet is allowed, as is asking them if
they are a puppeteer.  (You should be aware that such questions
often turn into flamewars.)

Saying things like "I *could* call you [insult], but I won't"
counts as saying that thing.

Heated discussion is fine. Arguments that result in lifelong
fannish enmity due to political positions on slash, gen, het, or
Joe's brand of hair gel are also fine. Attacking other people is
NOT fine.  Don't do it.

9. Threats.  These can get you banned from the list
immediately.  No pardon, no appeal. The list moderators don't
want to stop people from expressing themselves in a free &
raucous manner, but anything that might be construed as a threat
of violence has to be done (a) in a humorous manner *and* (b)
only to your closest friends. So if, for instance, Mary Ellen
says something outrageous, Laura can write: "OK, that's it, I'm
sending Caspian to your house for breakfast." and trust it will
be clear to all that no actual rancor is involved. If it might
not be clear to all that your threats are only in fun, DO NOT
POST. Specifically, do not post if you are making joking threats
to someone to whom you do not consider yourself close.

If you are actually close friends but the list has no reason to
know it, you need to say something like, "Speaking as one of
your close friends, I'll rip your head off with a spoon."

The list moderators have no wish to be as humorless as airport
security guards, but they have to take seriously-phrased threats
seriously.

10. Flamewars.  Don't participate.  They are no one's friend.

11. Real Person Fiction and MiSTs.

Discussion of Real Person Fic or ideas, like every other kind of
writing or ideas, is not out of bounds on CritEdge. Posters
should be aware that these are contentious issues and some
people may get upset. No topic will be ruled OT on the grounds
that it is upsetting.

Line-by-line critiques are permitted.  The list moderators
prefer other forms of criticism.  Out and out MiSTS (fiction
mocking the other story in a line-by-line way) are not; they are
fiction, not critique.

12. Zine Stories. On-topic. Go ahead and yammer away. Just make
sure to label the posts, so that those who don't have the zine
and don't want to be spoiled (or who *do* want to be spoiled)
can avoid (or gobble up) the posts.

You can label in the subject line (probably the kindest way to
do it, especially for those list members on slow connections) or
put a note in the first line of your post that you're discussing
[Name of Zine] or [Story from Name of Zine]. You can also put in
spoiler space if you like, but it's not required.


Other Information:

A. What happens when someone violates a list rule?

That person's post may be the subject of an ADMIN post, the
person may be contacted about the violation offlist, the person
may be set on moderated status, or the admins may decide that
the provocation was sufficient.

Usually that last never comes into play unless the person is a
longtime listmember with a history of obeying the list rules but
violates one because of extreme circumstances.

B. What will get an ADMIN post?

When someone violates a list rule, they *usually*, though not
always, have done one of four things.

1. they have posted something off-topic without labelling it
such
2. they have made a personal attack in a way that warrants on-
list commentary from us
3. they are participating in a flamewar
4. they have made a personal attack in a way that does not
warrant on-list commentary from us.

Areas 1 through 3 are likely to get an ADMIN post.

Area 2 and Area 4 are where the interesting bits come in: what
warrants commentary? Generally, what is going to get an ADMIN
post falls into three areas:

1. a comment which is really incredibly nasty, such as implying
that someone is a rapist, murderer, pedophile, etc. based on
either their posts or their fiction
2. a comment made obliquely or that appears to be an attempt to
disguise an insult.
3. a comment not as nasty as A, but which the poster has a habit
of making, especially if they direct such attack against a
particular person repeatedly.

Anything outside of these three areas is unlikely to get an
ADMIN-post addressing it; usually, the poster just receives a
note off-list telling them what they did, and asking them not to
do it again.

The list moderators *do* try to keep the ADMIN'ing down, and
keeping some of it off-list helps with that. The list is fairly
volatile but not, generally speaking, unmanageable or prone to
spontaneous hostility; a great deal of comments in Area 4 are
just poor wording choices or heat-of-the-moment-thoughtlessness.

The list moderators try to apply these rules fairly; they'd like
their frequent opponents to be as comfortable here as their
frequent supporters.

C. What will get someone set on moderated status?

Moderated status is at the administrators' discretion.  Anything
that garners an ADMIN post can also get you moderated.  Repeated
and persistent disruption of the list can get you moderated.
Ignoring an admin post can get you moderated. Making the admins
lose sleep over your behavior can get you moderated.

It's not something we like to do, but we will if we have to.

D. What will get you banned?

Trying to get around moderated status by posting from another
account will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.  Making
death threats on-list will get you banned.  Engaging in
sockpuppetry will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.
Repeated and persistent disruption of the list can get you banned.
If we have to moderate you repeatedly, we may ban you to save
ourselves the headache of dealing with you.

Rules of the Game

1. Criticism.  Serious, not serious, sound drubbings, round
mockings, and utter gushing - all allowed.  No, really. Gen,
het, and slash discussion is permitted, and no character or
pairing is privileged or forbidden.

2. Purpose.  Contrary to what some people seem to believe, we
are not here to workshop writers.  There are other lists for
that.  Criticism is by readers, for readers; we don't care if
the author knows about the critique or not, and although we
certainly don't object to authorial participation, CritEdge is
not a forum for authors in terms of criticism.

It is a forum for authors in terms of research and resources.
Because HL canon theoretically encompasses all of history and a
cast of billions, discussions of history, culture, and fencing
are as on-topic as Whether Methos Really Only Drinks Beer
Onscreen (he doesn't).

3. The Mannerly Art of Critique. "The Mannerly Art of
Critique" is a document that has been around for quite some time
in the newsgroups the list moderators started reading and
critiquing fan fiction.

In general, it is an excellent guide for how to have critical
discussions without degenerating into personal attacks. It is
also a piece of material that the list moderators didn't want to
lift entire chunks from wholesale, nor did they want to rewrite
it; further, the entire document is phrased as suggestions, not
as hard-and-fast rules.  The list moderators *are* rewriting it
for this list, but it's a slow process.

To address a specific issue in the current form of the document:
"The Mannerly Art of Critique" contains the following:

"Only crit those who have INVITED crit, or who have given you
permission when you ask."

This is *not* policy on this list. The list moderators consider
the very act of having made a piece of fanfiction available as
both invitation and permission to critique; no specific
permission is necessary.

4. Post trimming.  Please cut out irrelevant things from your
responses. It's annoying to have to read through the entire
previous post (or more!) to get to whatever a new poster has to
say.  This is extra-courteous for those who are on digest, or
who have to pay for online time or by the amount downloaded.

5. Metadiscussion.  This is a big one.  Many lists ban it;
CriticalEdge does not.

What this means: you can talk about discussion - how to write
criticism, why to write criticism, whether you like the tone of
a particular piece of criticism.

What it doesn't mean is that it's a free-for-all.  It's not.
Personal attacks are off-limits; telling people they *cannot* or
*should not* criticize is not permitted.

"I don't like the tone of your critique" is fine.  "I don't
think you should write critique" is not.

6. No one except one of the list moderators has the right to
tell any members of the list to play nice. Even if you really
wish other members of the list would play nice--well, you can
*ask* them to play nice, but you're not going to get backup from
this quarter.

Basically, the rule here is "play as mean as you want, as long
as you don't make ad hominem attacks or threats." Think of it as
a rough soccer game. Violence allowed, but sportsmanship counts.

7. Sockpuppets and trolls.  Historically, we have a problem
with these.  (They are especially fond of emerging from the
woodwork when one or both of the list moderators are out of town
or otherwise unable to access their computers.)  Don't respond
to them.  If you respond and then realize they're a troll or
sockpuppet, don't keep responding.

What they want most is to cause a ruckus.  Don't let them.

8. Ad hominem (personal) attacks.  If you do this too much,
and the list moderators might ban you for being disruptive; you
will be warned and put on moderated status first should this
issue actually arise.

Calling anyone mean, or stupid, or fat - those are the obvious
types of personal attack.

Talking about who's in who else's kill file is a no-no.

Attributing a lack of intelligence, adulthood, tact, etc. to
particular individuals is a no-no.

Accusing list members of being puppeteers (the people behind a
sockpuppet) is a no-no.

Asking someone *directly*, in a response to a post they have
made, if they are a sockpuppet is allowed, as is asking them if
they are a puppeteer.  (You should be aware that such questions
often turn into flamewars.)

Saying things like "I *could* call you [insult], but I won't"
counts as saying that thing.

Heated discussion is fine. Arguments that result in lifelong
fannish enmity due to political positions on slash, gen, het, or
Joe's brand of hair gel are also fine. Attacking other people is
NOT fine.  Don't do it.

9. Threats.  These can get you banned from the list
immediately.  No pardon, no appeal. The list moderators don't
want to stop people from expressing themselves in a free &
raucous manner, but anything that might be construed as a threat
of violence has to be done (a) in a humorous manner *and* (b)
only to your closest friends. So if, for instance, Mary Ellen
says something outrageous, Laura can write: "OK, that's it, I'm
sending Caspian to your house for breakfast." and trust it will
be clear to all that no actual rancor is involved. If it might
not be clear to all that your threats are only in fun, DO NOT
POST. Specifically, do not post if you are making joking threats
to someone to whom you do not consider yourself close.

If you are actually close friends but the list has no reason to
know it, you need to say something like, "Speaking as one of
your close friends, I'll rip your head off with a spoon."

The list moderators have no wish to be as humorless as airport
security guards, but they have to take seriously-phrased threats
seriously.

10. Flamewars.  Don't participate.  They are no one's friend.

11. Real Person Fiction and MiSTs.

Discussion of Real Person Fic or ideas, like every other kind of
writing or ideas, is not out of bounds on CritEdge. Posters
should be aware that these are contentious issues and some
people may get upset. No topic will be ruled OT on the grounds
that it is upsetting.

Line-by-line critiques are permitted.  The list moderators
prefer other forms of criticism.  Out and out MiSTS (fiction
mocking the other story in a line-by-line way) are not; they are
fiction, not critique.

12. Zine Stories. On-topic. Go ahead and yammer away. Just make
sure to label the posts, so that those who don't have the zine
and don't want to be spoiled (or who *do* want to be spoiled)
can avoid (or gobble up) the posts.

You can label in the subject line (probably the kindest way to
do it, especially for those list members on slow connections) or
put a note in the first line of your post that you're discussing
[Name of Zine] or [Story from Name of Zine]. You can also put in
spoiler space if you like, but it's not required.


Other Information:

A. What happens when someone violates a list rule?

That person's post may be the subject of an ADMIN post, the
person may be contacted about the violation offlist, the person
may be set on moderated status, or the admins may decide that
the provocation was sufficient.

Usually that last never comes into play unless the person is a
longtime listmember with a history of obeying the list rules but
violates one because of extreme circumstances.

B. What will get an ADMIN post?

When someone violates a list rule, they *usually*, though not
always, have done one of four things.

1. they have posted something off-topic without labelling it
such
2. they have made a personal attack in a way that warrants on-
list commentary from us
3. they are participating in a flamewar
4. they have made a personal attack in a way that does not
warrant on-list commentary from us.

Areas 1 through 3 are likely to get an ADMIN post.

Area 2 and Area 4 are where the interesting bits come in: what
warrants commentary? Generally, what is going to get an ADMIN
post falls into three areas:

1. a comment which is really incredibly nasty, such as implying
that someone is a rapist, murderer, pedophile, etc. based on
either their posts or their fiction
2. a comment made obliquely or that appears to be an attempt to
disguise an insult.
3. a comment not as nasty as A, but which the poster has a habit
of making, especially if they direct such attack against a
particular person repeatedly.

Anything outside of these three areas is unlikely to get an
ADMIN-post addressing it; usually, the poster just receives a
note off-list telling them what they did, and asking them not to
do it again.

The list moderators *do* try to keep the ADMIN'ing down, and
keeping some of it off-list helps with that. The list is fairly
volatile but not, generally speaking, unmanageable or prone to
spontaneous hostility; a great deal of comments in Area 4 are
just poor wording choices or heat-of-the-moment-thoughtlessness.

The list moderators try to apply these rules fairly; they'd like
their frequent opponents to be as comfortable here as their
frequent supporters.

C. What will get someone set on moderated status?

Moderated status is at the administrators' discretion.  Anything
that garners an ADMIN post can also get you moderated.  Repeated
and persistent disruption of the list can get you moderated.
Ignoring an admin post can get you moderated. Making the admins
lose sleep over your behavior can get you moderated.

It's not something we like to do, but we will if we have to.

D. What will get you banned?

Trying to get around moderated status by posting from another
account will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.  Making
death threats on-list will get you banned.  Engaging in
sockpuppetry will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.
Repeated and persistent disruption of the list can get you banned.
If we have to moderate you repeatedly, we may ban you to save
ourselves the headache of dealing with you.

Rules of the Game

1. Criticism.  Serious, not serious, sound drubbings, round
mockings, and utter gushing - all allowed.  No, really. Gen,
het, and slash discussion is permitted, and no character or
pairing is privileged or forbidden.

2. Purpose.  Contrary to what some people seem to believe, we
are not here to workshop writers.  There are other lists for
that.  Criticism is by readers, for readers; we don't care if
the author knows about the critique or not, and although we
certainly don't object to authorial participation, CritEdge is
not a forum for authors in terms of criticism.

It is a forum for authors in terms of research and resources.
Because HL canon theoretically encompasses all of history and a
cast of billions, discussions of history, culture, and fencing
are as on-topic as Whether Methos Really Only Drinks Beer
Onscreen (he doesn't).

3. The Mannerly Art of Critique. "The Mannerly Art of
Critique" is a document that has been around for quite some time
in the newsgroups the list moderators started reading and
critiquing fan fiction.

In general, it is an excellent guide for how to have critical
discussions without degenerating into personal attacks. It is
also a piece of material that the list moderators didn't want to
lift entire chunks from wholesale, nor did they want to rewrite
it; further, the entire document is phrased as suggestions, not
as hard-and-fast rules.  The list moderators *are* rewriting it
for this list, but it's a slow process.

To address a specific issue in the current form of the document:
"The Mannerly Art of Critique" contains the following:

"Only crit those who have INVITED crit, or who have given you
permission when you ask."

This is *not* policy on this list. The list moderators consider
the very act of having made a piece of fanfiction available as
both invitation and permission to critique; no specific
permission is necessary.

4. Post trimming.  Please cut out irrelevant things from your
responses. It's annoying to have to read through the entire
previous post (or more!) to get to whatever a new poster has to
say.  This is extra-courteous for those who are on digest, or
who have to pay for online time or by the amount downloaded.

5. Metadiscussion.  This is a big one.  Many lists ban it;
CriticalEdge does not.

What this means: you can talk about discussion - how to write
criticism, why to write criticism, whether you like the tone of
a particular piece of criticism.

What it doesn't mean is that it's a free-for-all.  It's not.
Personal attacks are off-limits; telling people they *cannot* or
*should not* criticize is not permitted.

"I don't like the tone of your critique" is fine.  "I don't
think you should write critique" is not.

6. No one except one of the list moderators has the right to
tell any members of the list to play nice. Even if you really
wish other members of the list would play nice--well, you can
*ask* them to play nice, but you're not going to get backup from
this quarter.

Basically, the rule here is "play as mean as you want, as long
as you don't make ad hominem attacks or threats." Think of it as
a rough soccer game. Violence allowed, but sportsmanship counts.

7. Sockpuppets and trolls.  Historically, we have a problem
with these.  (They are especially fond of emerging from the
woodwork when one or both of the list moderators are out of town
or otherwise unable to access their computers.)  Don't respond
to them.  If you respond and then realize they're a troll or
sockpuppet, don't keep responding.

What they want most is to cause a ruckus.  Don't let them.

8. Ad hominem (personal) attacks.  If you do this too much,
and the list moderators might ban you for being disruptive; you
will be warned and put on moderated status first should this
issue actually arise.

Calling anyone mean, or stupid, or fat - those are the obvious
types of personal attack.

Talking about who's in who else's kill file is a no-no.

Attributing a lack of intelligence, adulthood, tact, etc. to
particular individuals is a no-no.

Accusing list members of being puppeteers (the people behind a
sockpuppet) is a no-no.

Asking someone *directly*, in a response to a post they have
made, if they are a sockpuppet is allowed, as is asking them if
they are a puppeteer.  (You should be aware that such questions
often turn into flamewars.)

Saying things like "I *could* call you [insult], but I won't"
counts as saying that thing.

Heated discussion is fine. Arguments that result in lifelong
fannish enmity due to political positions on slash, gen, het, or
Joe's brand of hair gel are also fine. Attacking other people is
NOT fine.  Don't do it.

9. Threats.  These can get you banned from the list
immediately.  No pardon, no appeal. The list moderators don't
want to stop people from expressing themselves in a free &
raucous manner, but anything that might be construed as a threat
of violence has to be done (a) in a humorous manner *and* (b)
only to your closest friends. So if, for instance, Mary Ellen
says something outrageous, Laura can write: "OK, that's it, I'm
sending Caspian to your house for breakfast." and trust it will
be clear to all that no actual rancor is involved. If it might
not be clear to all that your threats are only in fun, DO NOT
POST. Specifically, do not post if you are making joking threats
to someone to whom you do not consider yourself close.

If you are actually close friends but the list has no reason to
know it, you need to say something like, "Speaking as one of
your close friends, I'll rip your head off with a spoon."

The list moderators have no wish to be as humorless as airport
security guards, but they have to take seriously-phrased threats
seriously.

10. Flamewars.  Don't participate.  They are no one's friend.

11. Real Person Fiction and MiSTs.

Discussion of Real Person Fic or ideas, like every other kind of
writing or ideas, is not out of bounds on CritEdge. Posters
should be aware that these are contentious issues and some
people may get upset. No topic will be ruled OT on the grounds
that it is upsetting.

Line-by-line critiques are permitted.  The list moderators
prefer other forms of criticism.  Out and out MiSTS (fiction
mocking the other story in a line-by-line way) are not; they are
fiction, not critique.

12. Zine Stories. On-topic. Go ahead and yammer away. Just make
sure to label the posts, so that those who don't have the zine
and don't want to be spoiled (or who *do* want to be spoiled)
can avoid (or gobble up) the posts.

You can label in the subject line (probably the kindest way to
do it, especially for those list members on slow connections) or
put a note in the first line of your post that you're discussing
[Name of Zine] or [Story from Name of Zine]. You can also put in
spoiler space if you like, but it's not required.


Other Information:

A. What happens when someone violates a list rule?

That person's post may be the subject of an ADMIN post, the
person may be contacted about the violation offlist, the person
may be set on moderated status, or the admins may decide that
the provocation was sufficient.

Usually that last never comes into play unless the person is a
longtime listmember with a history of obeying the list rules but
violates one because of extreme circumstances.

B. What will get an ADMIN post?

When someone violates a list rule, they *usually*, though not
always, have done one of four things.

1. they have posted something off-topic without labelling it
such
2. they have made a personal attack in a way that warrants on-
list commentary from us
3. they are participating in a flamewar
4. they have made a personal attack in a way that does not
warrant on-list commentary from us.

Areas 1 through 3 are likely to get an ADMIN post.

Area 2 and Area 4 are where the interesting bits come in: what
warrants commentary? Generally, what is going to get an ADMIN
post falls into three areas:

1. a comment which is really incredibly nasty, such as implying
that someone is a rapist, murderer, pedophile, etc. based on
either their posts or their fiction
2. a comment made obliquely or that appears to be an attempt to
disguise an insult.
3. a comment not as nasty as A, but which the poster has a habit
of making, especially if they direct such attack against a
particular person repeatedly.

Anything outside of these three areas is unlikely to get an
ADMIN-post addressing it; usually, the poster just receives a
note off-list telling them what they did, and asking them not to
do it again.

The list moderators *do* try to keep the ADMIN'ing down, and
keeping some of it off-list helps with that. The list is fairly
volatile but not, generally speaking, unmanageable or prone to
spontaneous hostility; a great deal of comments in Area 4 are
just poor wording choices or heat-of-the-moment-thoughtlessness.

The list moderators try to apply these rules fairly; they'd like
their frequent opponents to be as comfortable here as their
frequent supporters.

C. What will get someone set on moderated status?

Moderated status is at the administrators' discretion.  Anything
that garners an ADMIN post can also get you moderated.  Repeated
and persistent disruption of the list can get you moderated.
Ignoring an admin post can get you moderated. Making the admins
lose sleep over your behavior can get you moderated.

It's not something we like to do, but we will if we have to.

D. What will get you banned?

Trying to get around moderated status by posting from another
account will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.  Making
death threats on-list will get you banned.  Engaging in
sockpuppetry will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.
Repeated and persistent disruption of the list can get you banned.
If we have to moderate you repeatedly, we may ban you to save
ourselves the headache of dealing with you.

Rules of the Game

1. Criticism.  Serious, not serious, sound drubbings, round
mockings, and utter gushing - all allowed.  No, really. Gen,
het, and slash discussion is permitted, and no character or
pairing is privileged or forbidden.

2. Purpose.  Contrary to what some people seem to believe, we
are not here to workshop writers.  There are other lists for
that.  Criticism is by readers, for readers; we don't care if
the author knows about the critique or not, and although we
certainly don't object to authorial participation, CritEdge is
not a forum for authors in terms of criticism.

It is a forum for authors in terms of research and resources.
Because HL canon theoretically encompasses all of history and a
cast of billions, discussions of history, culture, and fencing
are as on-topic as Whether Methos Really Only Drinks Beer
Onscreen (he doesn't).

3. The Mannerly Art of Critique. "The Mannerly Art of
Critique" is a document that has been around for quite some time
in the newsgroups the list moderators started reading and
critiquing fan fiction.

In general, it is an excellent guide for how to have critical
discussions without degenerating into personal attacks. It is
also a piece of material that the list moderators didn't want to
lift entire chunks from wholesale, nor did they want to rewrite
it; further, the entire document is phrased as suggestions, not
as hard-and-fast rules.  The list moderators *are* rewriting it
for this list, but it's a slow process.

To address a specific issue in the current form of the document:
"The Mannerly Art of Critique" contains the following:

"Only crit those who have INVITED crit, or who have given you
permission when you ask."

This is *not* policy on this list. The list moderators consider
the very act of having made a piece of fanfiction available as
both invitation and permission to critique; no specific
permission is necessary.

4. Post trimming.  Please cut out irrelevant things from your
responses. It's annoying to have to read through the entire
previous post (or more!) to get to whatever a new poster has to
say.  This is extra-courteous for those who are on digest, or
who have to pay for online time or by the amount downloaded.

5. Metadiscussion.  This is a big one.  Many lists ban it;
CriticalEdge does not.

What this means: you can talk about discussion - how to write
criticism, why to write criticism, whether you like the tone of
a particular piece of criticism.

What it doesn't mean is that it's a free-for-all.  It's not.
Personal attacks are off-limits; telling people they *cannot* or
*should not* criticize is not permitted.

"I don't like the tone of your critique" is fine.  "I don't
think you should write critique" is not.

6. No one except one of the list moderators has the right to
tell any members of the list to play nice. Even if you really
wish other members of the list would play nice--well, you can
*ask* them to play nice, but you're not going to get backup from
this quarter.

Basically, the rule here is "play as mean as you want, as long
as you don't make ad hominem attacks or threats." Think of it as
a rough soccer game. Violence allowed, but sportsmanship counts.

7. Sockpuppets and trolls.  Historically, we have a problem
with these.  (They are especially fond of emerging from the
woodwork when one or both of the list moderators are out of town
or otherwise unable to access their computers.)  Don't respond
to them.  If you respond and then realize they're a troll or
sockpuppet, don't keep responding.

What they want most is to cause a ruckus.  Don't let them.

8. Ad hominem (personal) attacks.  If you do this too much,
and the list moderators might ban you for being disruptive; you
will be warned and put on moderated status first should this
issue actually arise.

Calling anyone mean, or stupid, or fat - those are the obvious
types of personal attack.

Talking about who's in who else's kill file is a no-no.

Attributing a lack of intelligence, adulthood, tact, etc. to
particular individuals is a no-no.

Accusing list members of being puppeteers (the people behind a
sockpuppet) is a no-no.

Asking someone *directly*, in a response to a post they have
made, if they are a sockpuppet is allowed, as is asking them if
they are a puppeteer.  (You should be aware that such questions
often turn into flamewars.)

Saying things like "I *could* call you [insult], but I won't"
counts as saying that thing.

Heated discussion is fine. Arguments that result in lifelong
fannish enmity due to political positions on slash, gen, het, or
Joe's brand of hair gel are also fine. Attacking other people is
NOT fine.  Don't do it.

9. Threats.  These can get you banned from the list
immediately.  No pardon, no appeal. The list moderators don't
want to stop people from expressing themselves in a free &
raucous manner, but anything that might be construed as a threat
of violence has to be done (a) in a humorous manner *and* (b)
only to your closest friends. So if, for instance, Mary Ellen
says something outrageous, Laura can write: "OK, that's it, I'm
sending Caspian to your house for breakfast." and trust it will
be clear to all that no actual rancor is involved. If it might
not be clear to all that your threats are only in fun, DO NOT
POST. Specifically, do not post if you are making joking threats
to someone to whom you do not consider yourself close.

If you are actually close friends but the list has no reason to
know it, you need to say something like, "Speaking as one of
your close friends, I'll rip your head off with a spoon."

The list moderators have no wish to be as humorless as airport
security guards, but they have to take seriously-phrased threats
seriously.

10. Flamewars.  Don't participate.  They are no one's friend.

11. Real Person Fiction and MiSTs.

Discussion of Real Person Fic or ideas, like every other kind of
writing or ideas, is not out of bounds on CritEdge. Posters
should be aware that these are contentious issues and some
people may get upset. No topic will be ruled OT on the grounds
that it is upsetting.

Line-by-line critiques are permitted.  The list moderators
prefer other forms of criticism.  Out and out MiSTS (fiction
mocking the other story in a line-by-line way) are not; they are
fiction, not critique.

12. Zine Stories. On-topic. Go ahead and yammer away. Just make
sure to label the posts, so that those who don't have the zine
and don't want to be spoiled (or who *do* want to be spoiled)
can avoid (or gobble up) the posts.

You can label in the subject line (probably the kindest way to
do it, especially for those list members on slow connections) or
put a note in the first line of your post that you're discussing
[Name of Zine] or [Story from Name of Zine]. You can also put in
spoiler space if you like, but it's not required.


Other Information:

A. What happens when someone violates a list rule?

That person's post may be the subject of an ADMIN post, the
person may be contacted about the violation offlist, the person
may be set on moderated status, or the admins may decide that
the provocation was sufficient.

Usually that last never comes into play unless the person is a
longtime listmember with a history of obeying the list rules but
violates one because of extreme circumstances.

B. What will get an ADMIN post?

When someone violates a list rule, they *usually*, though not
always, have done one of four things.

1. they have posted something off-topic without labelling it
such
2. they have made a personal attack in a way that warrants on-
list commentary from us
3. they are participating in a flamewar
4. they have made a personal attack in a way that does not
warrant on-list commentary from us.

Areas 1 through 3 are likely to get an ADMIN post.

Area 2 and Area 4 are where the interesting bits come in: what
warrants commentary? Generally, what is going to get an ADMIN
post falls into three areas:

1. a comment which is really incredibly nasty, such as implying
that someone is a rapist, murderer, pedophile, etc. based on
either their posts or their fiction
2. a comment made obliquely or that appears to be an attempt to
disguise an insult.
3. a comment not as nasty as A, but which the poster has a habit
of making, especially if they direct such attack against a
particular person repeatedly.

Anything outside of these three areas is unlikely to get an
ADMIN-post addressing it; usually, the poster just receives a
note off-list telling them what they did, and asking them not to
do it again.

The list moderators *do* try to keep the ADMIN'ing down, and
keeping some of it off-list helps with that. The list is fairly
volatile but not, generally speaking, unmanageable or prone to
spontaneous hostility; a great deal of comments in Area 4 are
just poor wording choices or heat-of-the-moment-thoughtlessness.

The list moderators try to apply these rules fairly; they'd like
their frequent opponents to be as comfortable here as their
frequent supporters.

C. What will get someone set on moderated status?

Moderated status is at the administrators' discretion.  Anything
that garners an ADMIN post can also get you moderated.  Repeated
and persistent disruption of the list can get you moderated.
Ignoring an admin post can get you moderated. Making the admins
lose sleep over your behavior can get you moderated.

It's not something we like to do, but we will if we have to.

D. What will get you banned?

Trying to get around moderated status by posting from another
account will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.  Making
death threats on-list will get you banned.  Engaging in
sockpuppetry will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.
Repeated and persistent disruption of the list can get you banned.
If we have to moderate you repeatedly, we may ban you to save
ourselves the headache of dealing with you.

Rules of the Game

1. Criticism.  Serious, not serious, sound drubbings, round
mockings, and utter gushing - all allowed.  No, really. Gen,
het, and slash discussion is permitted, and no character or
pairing is privileged or forbidden.

2. Purpose.  Contrary to what some people seem to believe, we
are not here to workshop writers.  There are other lists for
that.  Criticism is by readers, for readers; we don't care if
the author knows about the critique or not, and although we
certainly don't object to authorial participation, CritEdge is
not a forum for authors in terms of criticism.

It is a forum for authors in terms of research and resources.
Because HL canon theoretically encompasses all of history and a
cast of billions, discussions of history, culture, and fencing
are as on-topic as Whether Methos Really Only Drinks Beer
Onscreen (he doesn't).

3. The Mannerly Art of Critique. "The Mannerly Art of
Critique" is a document that has been around for quite some time
in the newsgroups the list moderators started reading and
critiquing fan fiction.

In general, it is an excellent guide for how to have critical
discussions without degenerating into personal attacks. It is
also a piece of material that the list moderators didn't want to
lift entire chunks from wholesale, nor did they want to rewrite
it; further, the entire document is phrased as suggestions, not
as hard-and-fast rules.  The list moderators *are* rewriting it
for this list, but it's a slow process.

To address a specific issue in the current form of the document:
"The Mannerly Art of Critique" contains the following:

"Only crit those who have INVITED crit, or who have given you
permission when you ask."

This is *not* policy on this list. The list moderators consider
the very act of having made a piece of fanfiction available as
both invitation and permission to critique; no specific
permission is necessary.

4. Post trimming.  Please cut out irrelevant things from your
responses. It's annoying to have to read through the entire
previous post (or more!) to get to whatever a new poster has to
say.  This is extra-courteous for those who are on digest, or
who have to pay for online time or by the amount downloaded.

5. Metadiscussion.  This is a big one.  Many lists ban it;
CriticalEdge does not.

What this means: you can talk about discussion - how to write
criticism, why to write criticism, whether you like the tone of
a particular piece of criticism.

What it doesn't mean is that it's a free-for-all.  It's not.
Personal attacks are off-limits; telling people they *cannot* or
*should not* criticize is not permitted.

"I don't like the tone of your critique" is fine.  "I don't
think you should write critique" is not.

6. No one except one of the list moderators has the right to
tell any members of the list to play nice. Even if you really
wish other members of the list would play nice--well, you can
*ask* them to play nice, but you're not going to get backup from
this quarter.

Basically, the rule here is "play as mean as you want, as long
as you don't make ad hominem attacks or threats." Think of it as
a rough soccer game. Violence allowed, but sportsmanship counts.

7. Sockpuppets and trolls.  Historically, we have a problem
with these.  (They are especially fond of emerging from the
woodwork when one or both of the list moderators are out of town
or otherwise unable to access their computers.)  Don't respond
to them.  If you respond and then realize they're a troll or
sockpuppet, don't keep responding.

What they want most is to cause a ruckus.  Don't let them.

8. Ad hominem (personal) attacks.  If you do this too much,
and the list moderators might ban you for being disruptive; you
will be warned and put on moderated status first should this
issue actually arise.

Calling anyone mean, or stupid, or fat - those are the obvious
types of personal attack.

Talking about who's in who else's kill file is a no-no.

Attributing a lack of intelligence, adulthood, tact, etc. to
particular individuals is a no-no.

Accusing list members of being puppeteers (the people behind a
sockpuppet) is a no-no.

Asking someone *directly*, in a response to a post they have
made, if they are a sockpuppet is allowed, as is asking them if
they are a puppeteer.  (You should be aware that such questions
often turn into flamewars.)

Saying things like "I *could* call you [insult], but I won't"
counts as saying that thing.

Heated discussion is fine. Arguments that result in lifelong
fannish enmity due to political positions on slash, gen, het, or
Joe's brand of hair gel are also fine. Attacking other people is
NOT fine.  Don't do it.

9. Threats.  These can get you banned from the list
immediately.  No pardon, no appeal. The list moderators don't
want to stop people from expressing themselves in a free &
raucous manner, but anything that might be construed as a threat
of violence has to be done (a) in a humorous manner *and* (b)
only to your closest friends. So if, for instance, Mary Ellen
says something outrageous, Laura can write: "OK, that's it, I'm
sending Caspian to your house for breakfast." and trust it will
be clear to all that no actual rancor is involved. If it might
not be clear to all that your threats are only in fun, DO NOT
POST. Specifically, do not post if you are making joking threats
to someone to whom you do not consider yourself close.

If you are actually close friends but the list has no reason to
know it, you need to say something like, "Speaking as one of
your close friends, I'll rip your head off with a spoon."

The list moderators have no wish to be as humorless as airport
security guards, but they have to take seriously-phrased threats
seriously.

10. Flamewars.  Don't participate.  They are no one's friend.

11. Real Person Fiction and MiSTs.

Discussion of Real Person Fic or ideas, like every other kind of
writing or ideas, is not out of bounds on CritEdge. Posters
should be aware that these are contentious issues and some
people may get upset. No topic will be ruled OT on the grounds
that it is upsetting.

Line-by-line critiques are permitted.  The list moderators
prefer other forms of criticism.  Out and out MiSTS (fiction
mocking the other story in a line-by-line way) are not; they are
fiction, not critique.

12. Zine Stories. On-topic. Go ahead and yammer away. Just make
sure to label the posts, so that those who don't have the zine
and don't want to be spoiled (or who *do* want to be spoiled)
can avoid (or gobble up) the posts.

You can label in the subject line (probably the kindest way to
do it, especially for those list members on slow connections) or
put a note in the first line of your post that you're discussing
[Name of Zine] or [Story from Name of Zine]. You can also put in
spoiler space if you like, but it's not required.


Other Information:

A. What happens when someone violates a list rule?

That person's post may be the subject of an ADMIN post, the
person may be contacted about the violation offlist, the person
may be set on moderated status, or the admins may decide that
the provocation was sufficient.

Usually that last never comes into play unless the person is a
longtime listmember with a history of obeying the list rules but
violates one because of extreme circumstances.

B. What will get an ADMIN post?

When someone violates a list rule, they *usually*, though not
always, have done one of four things.

1. they have posted something off-topic without labelling it
such
2. they have made a personal attack in a way that warrants on-
list commentary from us
3. they are participating in a flamewar
4. they have made a personal attack in a way that does not
warrant on-list commentary from us.

Areas 1 through 3 are likely to get an ADMIN post.

Area 2 and Area 4 are where the interesting bits come in: what
warrants commentary? Generally, what is going to get an ADMIN
post falls into three areas:

1. a comment which is really incredibly nasty, such as implying
that someone is a rapist, murderer, pedophile, etc. based on
either their posts or their fiction
2. a comment made obliquely or that appears to be an attempt to
disguise an insult.
3. a comment not as nasty as A, but which the poster has a habit
of making, especially if they direct such attack against a
particular person repeatedly.

Anything outside of these three areas is unlikely to get an
ADMIN-post addressing it; usually, the poster just receives a
note off-list telling them what they did, and asking them not to
do it again.

The list moderators *do* try to keep the ADMIN'ing down, and
keeping some of it off-list helps with that. The list is fairly
volatile but not, generally speaking, unmanageable or prone to
spontaneous hostility; a great deal of comments in Area 4 are
just poor wording choices or heat-of-the-moment-thoughtlessness.

The list moderators try to apply these rules fairly; they'd like
their frequent opponents to be as comfortable here as their
frequent supporters.

C. What will get someone set on moderated status?

Moderated status is at the administrators' discretion.  Anything
that garners an ADMIN post can also get you moderated.  Repeated
and persistent disruption of the list can get you moderated.
Ignoring an admin post can get you moderated. Making the admins
lose sleep over your behavior can get you moderated.

It's not something we like to do, but we will if we have to.

D. What will get you banned?

Trying to get around moderated status by posting from another
account will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.  Making
death threats on-list will get you banned.  Engaging in
sockpuppetry will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.
Repeated and persistent disruption of the list can get you banned.
If we have to moderate you repeatedly, we may ban you to save
ourselves the headache of dealing with you.

Rules of the Game

1. Criticism.  Serious, not serious, sound drubbings, round
mockings, and utter gushing - all allowed.  No, really. Gen,
het, and slash discussion is permitted, and no character or
pairing is privileged or forbidden.

2. Purpose.  Contrary to what some people seem to believe, we
are not here to workshop writers.  There are other lists for
that.  Criticism is by readers, for readers; we don't care if
the author knows about the critique or not, and although we
certainly don't object to authorial participation, CritEdge is
not a forum for authors in terms of criticism.

It is a forum for authors in terms of research and resources.
Because HL canon theoretically encompasses all of history and a
cast of billions, discussions of history, culture, and fencing
are as on-topic as Whether Methos Really Only Drinks Beer
Onscreen (he doesn't).

3. The Mannerly Art of Critique. "The Mannerly Art of
Critique" is a document that has been around for quite some time
in the newsgroups the list moderators started reading and
critiquing fan fiction.

In general, it is an excellent guide for how to have critical
discussions without degenerating into personal attacks. It is
also a piece of material that the list moderators didn't want to
lift entire chunks from wholesale, nor did they want to rewrite
it; further, the entire document is phrased as suggestions, not
as hard-and-fast rules.  The list moderators *are* rewriting it
for this list, but it's a slow process.

To address a specific issue in the current form of the document:
"The Mannerly Art of Critique" contains the following:

"Only crit those who have INVITED crit, or who have given you
permission when you ask."

This is *not* policy on this list. The list moderators consider
the very act of having made a piece of fanfiction available as
both invitation and permission to critique; no specific
permission is necessary.

4. Post trimming.  Please cut out irrelevant things from your
responses. It's annoying to have to read through the entire
previous post (or more!) to get to whatever a new poster has to
say.  This is extra-courteous for those who are on digest, or
who have to pay for online time or by the amount downloaded.

5. Metadiscussion.  This is a big one.  Many lists ban it;
CriticalEdge does not.

What this means: you can talk about discussion - how to write
criticism, why to write criticism, whether you like the tone of
a particular piece of criticism.

What it doesn't mean is that it's a free-for-all.  It's not.
Personal attacks are off-limits; telling people they *cannot* or
*should not* criticize is not permitted.

"I don't like the tone of your critique" is fine.  "I don't
think you should write critique" is not.

6. No one except one of the list moderators has the right to
tell any members of the list to play nice. Even if you really
wish other members of the list would play nice--well, you can
*ask* them to play nice, but you're not going to get backup from
this quarter.

Basically, the rule here is "play as mean as you want, as long
as you don't make ad hominem attacks or threats." Think of it as
a rough soccer game. Violence allowed, but sportsmanship counts.

7. Sockpuppets and trolls.  Historically, we have a problem
with these.  (They are especially fond of emerging from the
woodwork when one or both of the list moderators are out of town
or otherwise unable to access their computers.)  Don't respond
to them.  If you respond and then realize they're a troll or
sockpuppet, don't keep responding.

What they want most is to cause a ruckus.  Don't let them.

8. Ad hominem (personal) attacks.  If you do this too much,
and the list moderators might ban you for being disruptive; you
will be warned and put on moderated status first should this
issue actually arise.

Calling anyone mean, or stupid, or fat - those are the obvious
types of personal attack.

Talking about who's in who else's kill file is a no-no.

Attributing a lack of intelligence, adulthood, tact, etc. to
particular individuals is a no-no.

Accusing list members of being puppeteers (the people behind a
sockpuppet) is a no-no.

Asking someone *directly*, in a response to a post they have
made, if they are a sockpuppet is allowed, as is asking them if
they are a puppeteer.  (You should be aware that such questions
often turn into flamewars.)

Saying things like "I *could* call you [insult], but I won't"
counts as saying that thing.

Heated discussion is fine. Arguments that result in lifelong
fannish enmity due to political positions on slash, gen, het, or
Joe's brand of hair gel are also fine. Attacking other people is
NOT fine.  Don't do it.

9. Threats.  These can get you banned from the list
immediately.  No pardon, no appeal. The list moderators don't
want to stop people from expressing themselves in a free &
raucous manner, but anything that might be construed as a threat
of violence has to be done (a) in a humorous manner *and* (b)
only to your closest friends. So if, for instance, Mary Ellen
says something outrageous, Laura can write: "OK, that's it, I'm
sending Caspian to your house for breakfast." and trust it will
be clear to all that no actual rancor is involved. If it might
not be clear to all that your threats are only in fun, DO NOT
POST. Specifically, do not post if you are making joking threats
to someone to whom you do not consider yourself close.

If you are actually close friends but the list has no reason to
know it, you need to say something like, "Speaking as one of
your close friends, I'll rip your head off with a spoon."

The list moderators have no wish to be as humorless as airport
security guards, but they have to take seriously-phrased threats
seriously.

10. Flamewars.  Don't participate.  They are no one's friend.

11. Real Person Fiction and MiSTs.

Discussion of Real Person Fic or ideas, like every other kind of
writing or ideas, is not out of bounds on CritEdge. Posters
should be aware that these are contentious issues and some
people may get upset. No topic will be ruled OT on the grounds
that it is upsetting.

Line-by-line critiques are permitted.  The list moderators
prefer other forms of criticism.  Out and out MiSTS (fiction
mocking the other story in a line-by-line way) are not; they are
fiction, not critique.

12. Zine Stories. On-topic. Go ahead and yammer away. Just make
sure to label the posts, so that those who don't have the zine
and don't want to be spoiled (or who *do* want to be spoiled)
can avoid (or gobble up) the posts.

You can label in the subject line (probably the kindest way to
do it, especially for those list members on slow connections) or
put a note in the first line of your post that you're discussing
[Name of Zine] or [Story from Name of Zine]. You can also put in
spoiler space if you like, but it's not required.


Other Information:

A. What happens when someone violates a list rule?

That person's post may be the subject of an ADMIN post, the
person may be contacted about the violation offlist, the person
may be set on moderated status, or the admins may decide that
the provocation was sufficient.

Usually that last never comes into play unless the person is a
longtime listmember with a history of obeying the list rules but
violates one because of extreme circumstances.

B. What will get an ADMIN post?

When someone violates a list rule, they *usually*, though not
always, have done one of four things.

1. they have posted something off-topic without labelling it
such
2. they have made a personal attack in a way that warrants on-
list commentary from us
3. they are participating in a flamewar
4. they have made a personal attack in a way that does not
warrant on-list commentary from us.

Areas 1 through 3 are likely to get an ADMIN post.

Area 2 and Area 4 are where the interesting bits come in: what
warrants commentary? Generally, what is going to get an ADMIN
post falls into three areas:

1. a comment which is really incredibly nasty, such as implying
that someone is a rapist, murderer, pedophile, etc. based on
either their posts or their fiction
2. a comment made obliquely or that appears to be an attempt to
disguise an insult.
3. a comment not as nasty as A, but which the poster has a habit
of making, especially if they direct such attack against a
particular person repeatedly.

Anything outside of these three areas is unlikely to get an
ADMIN-post addressing it; usually, the poster just receives a
note off-list telling them what they did, and asking them not to
do it again.

The list moderators *do* try to keep the ADMIN'ing down, and
keeping some of it off-list helps with that. The list is fairly
volatile but not, generally speaking, unmanageable or prone to
spontaneous hostility; a great deal of comments in Area 4 are
just poor wording choices or heat-of-the-moment-thoughtlessness.

The list moderators try to apply these rules fairly; they'd like
their frequent opponents to be as comfortable here as their
frequent supporters.

C. What will get someone set on moderated status?

Moderated status is at the administrators' discretion.  Anything
that garners an ADMIN post can also get you moderated.  Repeated
and persistent disruption of the list can get you moderated.
Ignoring an admin post can get you moderated. Making the admins
lose sleep over your behavior can get you moderated.

It's not something we like to do, but we will if we have to.

D. What will get you banned?

Trying to get around moderated status by posting from another
account will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.  Making
death threats on-list will get you banned.  Engaging in
sockpuppetry will get all accounts we can trace to you banned.
Repeated and persistent disruption of the list can get you banned.
If we have to moderate you repeatedly, we may ban you to save
ourselves the headache of dealing with you.